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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I am so excited about today's episode because there's something we're going to be talking about that in over 1,100 episodes, we've somehow never discussed.
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And it's funny because it's something that we all face in our own businesses, and that's because today's guest one thing that I saw in his messaging is that he helps businesses focus on the right audience and avoid time wasters, which none of us want those types of people.
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So today's guest is going to knock our socks off and give us so many cool insights into all the great work that he's up to.
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So let me introduce you to him.
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His name is Calvin Wachter.
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Calvin is a specialist in targeted lead generation.
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His company helps businesses identify and connect with their ideal customers, transforming prospects into loyal clients.
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That is something we are all tasked with in our businesses.
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With backgrounds in business development and data analytics, he's developed strategies that enable small companies to scale efficiently by focusing on that little teaser that I had at the top of this episode, which is focusing on the right audience while avoiding time wasters.
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I'm super excited about this one, so I'm not going to say anything else, let's dive straight into my interview with Calvurn Wachter.
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All right, calvurn, I am so excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first, welcome to the show.
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Thanks, yeah, so I was on a, a lot of podcasts, a lot of tv shows in my my day and everyone's like, wow, I'm blown away by the introduction, like this is when you, when you introduced me, I was blown away.
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that was, that was fantastic, thank you heck yeah, I'll tell you this if I ever stop doing this podcast, I'm just gonna charge people to introduce them at networking events I get that all the time, calvin, but what I want you to do, since I you that intro is take us beyond the bio.
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Tell listeners who's Calvurn.
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How'd you start doing all this cool work?
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Yeah, sure, no problem.
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So I mean, growing up, I've always been in love with data, with analytics, with making spreadsheets.
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You know, when I was growing up I would play fancy football with my friends and you know, back then I didn't know what Excel was.
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So when I was 10, 11, 12 years old, I had pencil, I had paper, I had a calculator and I would calculate just expected points per game, expected wins, you know.
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Then, as I got older, in college, I started doing that on a larger scale, once I knew what Excel was and I learned what more databases were.
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Then, in my first job, one of my bosses had an idea and I was like this would take way too long for us to do manually.
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So I made, you know, 10,000 entry database.
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Then I was able to do it by state, by location.
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And the next thing I know, I was in charge of lead generation for my first company that I was working at and then the second one I was in.
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I was also in charge of lead generation.
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And then I had a thought of why can't I do this on my own?
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If I can do this for one company, I can do it for two, I can do it for three, and then I started scaling along those lines and I love what I do.
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Yeah, I love that, especially because I know that you and I are both soccer fans, so sounds like you were early to the XG train, which has become all the rage in the soccer analytics world these days.
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But, calvary, I want to ask you about this because a lot of people, when they think about lead generation, they don't think about data supporting them.
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A lot of business owners way too many business owners lead generation is just something that happens by chance and they go to networking events and they meet people and they collect business cards.
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They're not very organized when it comes to lead generation.
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You obviously have a much more data intensive approach to it.
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What is lead generation?
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What do you see that's way too common for business owners?
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And then, what's your approach to lead gen?
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Sure.
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So one of my favorite sayings that I have right is that data, immediately data does not tell you what you want, but it tells you what you don't want.
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For example, and one of the companies that I was working for, I was in charge of choosing what regions we wanted to work in, so my biggest word is density.
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What I mean by density is density of location, density of opportunity.
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For example, I was telling a company last month that when you want to build density, where do you want to work?
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Where do you want to build that base?
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When I was choosing what college I wanted to go to when I was growing up, my uncle had really great advice.
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I was between three different schools and he said where could you see yourself living for the rest of your life?
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Right, and so that's why I ended up choosing the university in Nashville, because I thought that I would want to live in Nashville as opposed to other areas.
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Same thing applies for data.
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Where do you want to have a base?
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Where do you want to build and grow your foundation at?
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Right, and so that's what I tell every business that I work with is all right, what are your three goals?
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Where do you want to build, why do you want to build it and what's your end goal?
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Right, and so, with data, the last company I was working for before I started my own is I would be in charge of choosing which markets we wanted to go into.
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I would choose let's say, there's 100 possible markets for certain fields.
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Would choose, let's say, there's a hundred possible markets for certain, for certain fields.
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You choose the data that you want, you choose whichever things you think are best, and then I go in, I plug in all the numbers and then I'll present the top five, 10, 15 regions and then I can explain why, backed with data.
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Right, I mean, it's just something I've been doing for years, and I think that's the biggest thing for business owners is the where and the why.
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Yeah, so well said, Two very important questions that a lot of people don't ask in their own businesses.
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What I really appreciate about your business and the way that you run it, Calvin, is the fact that you not only do that analysis, you not only give people that clarity and that guidance on it, but I love the fact that you also enjoy executing.
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You also love providing those services to people.
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What does that look like?
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A lot of people have never worked with a growth company like yours and they're probably thinking, Calvert, how are you going to walk into my business and connect with leads and help me do exactly that?
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What's that look like?
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It's great.
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So one of the things that I've that I talked about a lot that I love doing is it's communicating, is being able to take a message and also verbalizing and explaining why something matters, what you can do with it right.
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So I actually have um two years of experience working in the business development world where not only would I be doing the data infrastructure, I would also be going to doctors, talking to surgeons, talking to people outside of health care.
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Um, one of the things I tell people is that.
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So my core functionality, what I've done previously is in healthcare, but in the last few months I've been working for a garbage truck company.
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I've been working for real estate companies, to where I can put myself in the position of the developer or the person who's trying to do that business.
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I can make the spreadsheets, I can make the data, I can make the suggestions, but then I can either go on behalf of the company or I can make the data.
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I can make the suggestions, but then I can either go on behalf of the company or I can tell the developer, someone in charge, what they should be doing to make those sales happen.
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So it's in the past.
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I've talked about how I've been a full scale provider.
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What that means is I can source the data, I can make the data understandable and actionable and I can also, if I need to go through and do the work for that company to help them grow where it can, you know be a one-stop shop, or I can be the development branch with my team it's not just me, it's others who are beneath me that I have them do work, you know, because I can't do everything at once, but I'm able to use my experience, my skill set and my skills to make those things happen yeah, I really appreciate the way you talk about that.
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I'll tell you this in the marketing world, I've always loved that phrase of full stack, a marketer that can help us in all the different ways and with your company, I love how much of your messaging talks about being a full service growth company, because those are the ingredients that are needed for all of us.
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What I'm hearing, though, when I hear you talk about the implementation, is a much more proactive approach to lead generation and going after the business than what most business owners and entrepreneurs do, because why?
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We've got a million other things on our plate.
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We're not just doing lead gen.
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We are also selling.
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We are also fulfilling our clients' projects.
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We are also doing the accounting and finance and projections and strategic planning all of these things.
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What does that proactivity look like for people who have never had the time or the resources to be proactive when it comes to their lead gen?
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What does it actually look like for you guys to do the work?
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Exactly so there's, you know, there's passive and there's active growth.
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One of the things that would you know, I had great times on previous companies, but that would drive me crazy is I would have an idea I would have a project.
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But that would drive me crazy is I would have an idea I would have a project, I would have contacts, I would have leads, and then they would sit on the shelf for a month, two months, three months, and that's what hard is, because everyone has so many things going on.
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You can't choose.
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That was actually my issue the first few months of me starting my company was I was trying to do six, seven things at once, and what I realized you really have to do is you have to choose one or two things and go at it and then go to step three, then go to step four, and so for me, my biggest focus has shifted from trying to do all the things at once but to focusing on the one thing that, in my opinion, my company is one of the best, or the best at, which is focusing on targeted lead generation.
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I'll give an example.
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I'm current, one of my partners is currently in the real estate industry, and we have a very precise set of metrics that we want to chase after our KPIs and we have certain goals, right.
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So what that means is that my team so for them we're doing email outreach, and so once we choose a certain market and we make the email seem like they're individualized towards that target, I'll have my engineers go through and find emails based on contacts that I developed and one of the great things that in the last market we were at, we were at over an 80% open percentage and a 20% reply percentage because our messaging was so direct and then, once that happened, the professionals inside of that company, they would go through and then they would start talking to the future clients, right.
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And so the biggest thing for me is that when you choose a region, you get familiarity and then you get repetition and then, once you're in there, you're able to grow a market organically, because sure, it can be hard at first when you're trying to outreach in a market, but once you have a common one two, three, four, five, six clients then it'll start building organically by word of mouth and by how you go in that market.
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Yeah, I'm going to put you on the spot here for listeners because I think it's really important.
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I think it's important for us to talk about this because it's a term that we throw around so much ICP, the ideal customer profile and we've all heard it on business podcasts and in YouTube videos and in business books.
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And I remember 10 years ago I used to obsess with the generic advice that everyone used to give of, like you need to know what car they drive, you need to know what music they listen to, and I remember I would sit down in my business and go okay, if they drive Toyota Camrys, what does that do?
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How do I get in front of them?
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It wasn't really helpful to me there, I know, and you even said it.
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You said targeted lead generation, so obviously that targeting is the first part of that phrase.
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What does that ideal customer profile look like to you when you help people get clarity on that?
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What's the level that you go to?
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And, most importantly, what do you actually care about so you can take action on it?
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So that's a great question, and I can give my least favorite answer of all time, which is it depends, right, based on which client you're working with, based on which industry, based on your goals.
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So one of the things you always want to avoid is you know, it's a simple phrase paralysis by analysis.
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Everyone's I'm sure everyone's heard it, and what that means in this situation is that sometimes you're too focused on the perfect client, that you're missing out on your ideal client, and so what that means is that you want to choose vague, but not too vague, of demographics.
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Then, once you have those set criteria, all right, you have a bucket.
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Instead of focusing on the top 5% of a market or the top 15% of the market, go for the top 30%, go for the top 35%, because as you start digging, you know eventually you'll find gold, and then that's when you want to start looking at those areas more.
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Yeah, that's such an important consideration.
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I'm grateful for you taking our audience there.
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What I also think about a lot is how far along these people are in their buying process, and so I think about, for example, a garbage company.
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You put that in the conversation.
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Let's roll with that as an example.
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If I own a garbage company.
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Well, quite frankly, I just I want to get in front of everybody in a given neighborhood, and that's my consideration, whereas if I'm selling social media services, I could get in front of every single business owner in the world, or I could say how the heck do I find business owners who are actively looking for social media agencies?
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So obviously there's different levels of awareness in the marketplace.
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How much do you consider that and how do you turn that into actionable insights so you can actually target those specific people?
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Sure, so what I would call is in that situation, you want to use what you call deal breakers.
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So when I was talking to my client in the garbage, you know, in the garbage truck company is essentially I said, all right, all right, jim, what?
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Yeah, which characteristics do you not want in a client, which characteristics do you not want in a customer?
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So he gave me deal breakers and so, like I said before, data doesn't always tell you what you want.
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It tells you what you don't want, right.
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And so you know, let's say, there's certain zip codes within a county or there's certain counties within a state.
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I was able to tell my client which areas he does not want to go into, what zip codes are not ideal targets.
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And so then, once we knocked off the bottom 40, 50, we had actionable insights on that last 50.
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And then we sat down and broke it down to where then he could start doing advertising, um, going to those neighborhoods and talking to people in those neighborhoods, because then he'll know these are the ones we have a chance for success, as opposed to ones where he would have no chance.
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And once again, the time waster aspect, right, it's about choosing what could work and knowing what does not work oh, I'll tell you what in over 1100 episodes.
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Calvin, I think you're the very first person who, within the context of your ideal customer, you've invited us to list out what we don't want as well.
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Truly, I think that that's really important advice when it comes to our ideal customer.
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I immediately think of two things.
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One, when you talk about deal breakers, realtors lean on that a lot.
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They say what do you not want in a house?
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People might say I don't want too much yard because I don't want to mow the lawn all the time.
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I don't use it.
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And then I also think about Google ad campaigns.
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It's so interesting how similar your approach is to their logic, which obviously they know what they're doing, because their logic is tell us the keywords you want to target and, equally, tell us the keywords you don't want to target in people's search terms.
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So it's really cool hearing how you apply that in the work that you do.
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I want to ask you about those deal breakers, because a lot of people this is the first time they may be hearing it.
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What are some more examples of those deal breakers that will help us to avoid the time wasters?
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Obviously it's a big way I tease this episode, so I want to go deeper there great.
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So let's all do that by breaking down different clients.
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So one of my clients was actually a pediatric dentist.
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So for anyone any of those who don't know what that means, it's a dentist who works with exclusively children.
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So one of the things that we did was I found him information based on how many high schools in the area, how many middle schools, as well as the average age of each zip code, as well as the age trends from five years ago to now, and you know.
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One more thing is also we included the median income of that zip code over with the five-year growth in population growths of those zip codes.
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So, based on information, we were able to knock out areas that did not have a high growth rate, that did not have a growing income rate over the last five years, as well as if the ratio of under 18-year-olds weren't high enough, then we also crossed those off.
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So then, once we had the bottom 50% off, we sat down and had a conversation about the top 50% and then use basically all the information on there.
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We got to our top 30% targets and then we started talking to those right and then, once we were figuring out which areas were working, we then focused our time on the top 10% after we tried the top 30%.
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Yeah, that is such a cool approach.
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Honestly, I'm really enjoying hearing the way you think through it.
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I know that simplicity is a core part of the way that you work with your clients, because you love the data.
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We may not love the data as much, but your ability to make it simple is super important.
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I wanna ask you about scale.
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It's something that, in preparation for you and I getting together today, it's something that it's so clear, it's near and dear to your heart.
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It's at the core of what it is that you do.
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A lot of people use that word in different ways.
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I feel like it's definitely become a buzzword in entrepreneurial circles over the past few years is everyone wants to talk about scale.
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What does scale actually mean to you?
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sure.
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So one of the really great things I've had, that I've had the pleasure of experiencing, is that.
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So I was hired by two companies that were recently had private equity money going into them.
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What that means is that a very wealthy individual, or individuals, started pouring money into a company because eventually they want to try to sell it and make a profit.
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So what that means is they want to grow rapidly and as the first hire at one company where I was, you know, as part of that growth process I was in a lot of meetings that I honestly had no business being in.
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But that's great because I'll be able to see different ideas.
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And then, you know, I stayed for a few years so I could see what worked and what didn't work, and so, and also, I was able to work in those companies and make some of those tools that worked and also didn't work.
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So now that I'm doing my own thing, I'm able to use those insights that I had to focus on scaling the right way and also talking about things the right way and being able to warn companies about the pitfalls of we could do, but this way might work better, or I've seen this happen before and it was risky.
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How about this way?
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So, really, just the easy way to describe it is that I've seen a lot of great and a lot of poor, and so I'm able to help companies grow quickly.
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Also, you know, with my digital skills, my analytic skills, my business skills help them scale the way that they want to scale with, once again, without wasting time.
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Yeah, I think that contrast is so important.
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Too many people forget about that.
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They think that we only learn from the wins.
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We learn from the things that are working, but I love your appreciation for learning through the things that don't work as well.
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It's that contrast that illuminates the good stuff.
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I think that's super important.
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I want to switch gears a little bit and talk to you about channels, because you've already introduced us to with one of your clients.
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You're working on emails, for example, and using that as an outreach mechanism.
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I can think of so many different ones, and we always get emails from listeners saying should I be using social media?
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Should I be on LinkedIn?
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Should I be doing paid ads?
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Obviously, there's no one right answer.
00:18:20.584 --> 00:18:22.185
I'll lean on your answer from earlier.
00:18:22.185 --> 00:18:23.386
It totally depends.
00:18:23.386 --> 00:18:26.770
But with that in mind, I do want to ask you what are some of those channels?
00:18:26.770 --> 00:18:32.179
Knowing that you use such a proactive approach, what are some of the channels that you lean on and really enjoy for lead gen?
00:18:33.040 --> 00:18:34.324
So really it depends, right.
00:18:34.324 --> 00:18:39.961
So, let's say, for my garbage, for the garbage company, their LinkedIn is not going to work right At that point.
00:18:39.961 --> 00:18:44.666
It's B2C, business to customer, so in that part it is marketing, right.
00:18:44.666 --> 00:18:53.875
So like, let's say, for example, on certain marketing sites, or even, let's say so, the easiest one of all Facebook, you can choose zip codes, you can choose keywords that you want to go after, right?
00:18:53.875 --> 00:18:55.856
So it really just depends on the client.
00:18:55.896 --> 00:18:57.278
But there's a wide variety, you know.
00:18:57.278 --> 00:19:06.502
You can make a podcast, you could start doing conferencing, you could try to make conferences with other business members, with CEOs, with clients.
00:19:06.502 --> 00:19:09.845
But you could do emailing, right.
00:19:09.845 --> 00:19:18.710
But the most important thing of all is that you make the customer feel comfortable, because no one's going to respond if they feel uncomfortable with something.
00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:18.950
Right.
00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:36.604
So you have to sit and ask yourself critically what situation do I need to put my future client, my future customer, in, to make him or her feel comfortable and confident that they can make a decision that was best for them without feeling pressured?
00:19:36.604 --> 00:19:43.622
Maybe it's email, maybe it's LinkedIn, maybe it's advertising, maybe it's Facebook, maybe it's making a podcast and playing the long game.
00:19:43.622 --> 00:19:52.763
I can't stress enough how important it is to adapt to your customer and their environment, and that's what makes them comfortable.
00:19:52.763 --> 00:19:56.376
So unfortunately, brian, the easy answer is there is no easy answer.
00:19:57.058 --> 00:19:58.000
Yeah, I love that.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.858
Hey, the fact that you gave a very big shout out to the world of podcasting.
00:20:01.858 --> 00:20:03.463
I'm super appreciative about that.
00:20:03.463 --> 00:20:06.806
But, like you said you emphasize, every platform has a different time frame.
00:20:06.806 --> 00:20:09.604
Podcasting is not a very quick solution.
00:20:09.604 --> 00:20:13.685
Take it from someone who's been doing it for almost a decade and over 1100 episodes.
00:20:13.685 --> 00:20:20.981
So, yeah, understanding the goals, understanding your customers really cool to hear in real time the way that you think about these things.
00:20:20.981 --> 00:20:31.384
I also want to ask you, when we think about all these different platforms and things that we could choose, obviously the back end of it is what supports and understanding the metrics and the data that comes back.
00:20:31.384 --> 00:20:36.324
Now, I'm guessing that's where you really love getting your hands on all that data and all that feedback.
00:20:36.324 --> 00:20:37.961
What are the things that you look for?
00:20:37.961 --> 00:20:44.263
Because a lot of businesses make efforts in all these different channels and all these different campaigns, but what are the metrics that you pay attention to?
00:20:44.263 --> 00:20:45.626
Great.
00:20:46.035 --> 00:20:50.146
So the most important thing for me in this is first, you've got to have preparation.
00:20:50.146 --> 00:20:58.506
So, like, let's say, with one of my main clients I'm working with now, before we do anything, I go through and I group it all by category.
00:20:58.506 --> 00:21:04.241
I have different metrics that I'm measuring Because I ask myself, right, what, what is my goal?
00:21:04.241 --> 00:21:08.009
What here will make a successful end goal?
00:21:08.009 --> 00:21:19.230
Then also ask me all right, when I'm starting, I have option one, option two, option three, option four, and then I mark all those different options so when I go through I can find the end result.
00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:23.505
As you know, previously in our conversation I brought up the 50, 30, 10% principle.
00:21:23.505 --> 00:21:34.583
Right, you want to first find your top 50%, then you want to go down to 30%, then, when you're done, find the final 10%, and the only way you can do that effectively is through planning and organization.
00:21:34.583 --> 00:21:38.376
So, with my data points, I'll have four different options.
00:21:38.478 --> 00:21:40.703
Remember, we don't want to roll out too many things to start.
00:21:40.703 --> 00:21:43.491
Then, once you have four options, you just let it go.
00:21:43.491 --> 00:21:46.747
And it's like fishing, right, you can, you can try different bait.
00:21:46.747 --> 00:21:50.436
If you're not getting many fish with your first bait, all right, you're going to toss it out.
00:21:50.436 --> 00:21:58.911
Then you try your second bait, and you try your third bait, and then your fourth bait, um, and then whichever ones get the most bites, all right, that's the bait you want to be using.
00:21:58.911 --> 00:22:02.782
It's the same exact thing for marketing and for lead generation, right?
00:22:02.782 --> 00:22:03.744
Um?
00:22:03.744 --> 00:22:22.971
And so all of that is just to say that you have to have an organized plan, and that's why I love data is because I know how to go through and set that infrastructure and then, once it's all done, I know how to go through and read it, so I can give suggestions on, once again, how to improve your process and not waste time, right.
00:22:23.952 --> 00:22:26.347
Yeah, most listeners can't see you and I right now.
00:22:26.347 --> 00:22:29.500
They're listening to us via just purely audio podcast.
00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:56.285
But what I really appreciate about during that answer is you had a big smile on your face talking about the fact that you just go with whatever bait is catching, and what I really appreciate about that, calvin, is a lot of people probably hope that a specific thing works, whereas it just sounds like you, straight up, don't care, you'll do whatever it is that works and you'll measure it yeah, um, but with that, the important thing right is you have to be strategic about how you apply.
00:22:56.645 --> 00:23:05.000
You know how you apply that bait, because if you're going in just tossing bait out all the time, eventually the fish are going to be like all right, something's going on here.
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:06.983
This is just too easy or I don't like this.
00:23:06.983 --> 00:23:12.712
So it's important to not oversaturate what you're doing by applying everything.
00:23:12.712 --> 00:23:19.601
It's important to have that healthy medium of all right, I know what doesn't work and I know what I don't want to do.
00:23:19.601 --> 00:23:24.592
So then that way you're not oversaturating the market or scaring away the fish, right?
00:23:24.592 --> 00:23:34.423
So it's always that happy medium and in my opinion, that's why you need a professional who can help you with these things, who understands, who's done all the hard work and knows what doesn't work already.
00:23:35.145 --> 00:23:36.008
Yeah, for sure.
00:23:36.008 --> 00:23:36.750
I'll tell you what.
00:23:36.750 --> 00:23:52.335
As someone who has never fished a day in my life, it's cool to see how these fishing analogies actually make it clear and simple, and that's why I want to go here with you, because I know that it's such a core component of the way that you work not necessarily the work that you do, but the way you do it is I already brought it up is simplicity.
