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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and there's one term that made me so excited about today's guest and really about this episode in particular, and that's because, as soon as we came across this amazing entrepreneur, we loved the way that she phrases that she turns businesses digital presences into revenue generating systems.
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Because the truth is, it's not enough to just be found.
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What we need to do as business owners is turn that presence into money, and that's what today's guest excels at.
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I'm so excited to introduce you to her.
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Her name is Jovana Arsenyevich.
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Jovana helps businesses turn that digital presence into revenue generating systems.
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As the founder of Meliora Agency, she's known for diving incredibly deep into her clients' businesses, so deep that they often joke that she should have an official title on their team.
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Her systematic approach to growth comes from an interesting background.
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Before founding Meliora, she studied management and organizational sciences and led a global organization of more than 400 people, developing and implementing long-term strategies, leading different teams and managing international relations.
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This experience taught her something crucial Systems beat hope every time.
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I'm gonna say that one more time for all of us Systems beat hope every single time Today.
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She helps clients build six-figure learning communities, establish authority and create lead generation systems that work 24-7.
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Her upcoming book your Community Needs what you Know guides experts through building and launching successful learning communities.
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This co-written piece is the culmination of her experience helping experts build profitable learning communities.
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We are all going to learn from her here today, so I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Jovana Arsenijevic.
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All right, jovana, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first.
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Welcome to the show.
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Hi Brian, Thank you for having me.
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I'm really excited to be here today.
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Yes, honestly, you and I joked about it off the air, but you and I are neighbors, albanian to Serbia.
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Very cool to be joined by someone from that neck of the woods.
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So, jovana, first things first.
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I loved introducing you to listeners in your background, but I'd love for you to take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Jovana?
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How did you start doing all these cool things?
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Okay, so, as you said, I have a marketing agency right now.
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So we are a really good tech agency working with only as like the number of clients at time and, as you said, we're really, really well.
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We're helping them build strategic content systems that actually work for them.
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What that means is that we help businesses turn their expertise, knowledge and solution into content that actually brings them qualified leads and helps them scale and grow their businesses.
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Uh, I would say that meliora is on and it is on a mission to help businesses reduce the noise that's around them and not just create noise when they're building called content, but actually, um, communicating with their ideal clients or customers and have them start working with them and staying a long term there.
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But yeah, to be completely honest, I never planned to have a marketing agency and you know that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, that's for sure but I didn't have marketing agency in my mind a few years ago when I started working this.
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But I didn't have a marketing agency in my mind a few years ago when I started working this.
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So what happened?
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During my studies, I was working as a freelancer in content writing and I had some of the clients that I've been working for quite a long time, and then one of them actually came from the USA to Belgrade to visit me, stayed here for a few days and he opened his laptop and showed me for the first time Ahrefs, google Search Console, analytics and all of the other tools that we use now on a daily basis.
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And that was the first time that I realized that something that I've been working on for quite a long time in that point it was, I think, six months was actually creating results and bringing results to my clients, and just seeing that that was, I would say, a turning point, understanding that there is an actual need in the market for what I'm doing now and what I'm doing now with my team.
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Back then it was just me and just to confirm that, a lot of referrals started coming in, and that's when I realized, ok, there is a real market need for this, and it's not only that, it's that these clients, these customers, these businesses, they actually choose to work with us instead of other solutions that were available back then.
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And one problem that I really noticed back then and I'm seeing it even now with a lot of AI tools is that content is quite a lot disregarded and thought of something as not that important for your business.
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Business owners usually focus on paid ads and something that can bring them results as soon as possible, without understanding that you need to have a foundation.
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You need to have materials and content that actually represents your company, your methodology, your approach, in a way that it really is, because, again, market is is really big.
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There is a lot of competition, but you really need to stand out.
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But and by those specific, specific knowledge is and experiences that you have, and not just you know have someone write you a blog piece or social media post based on what was in the top results when they've searched for that specific topic or what they've seen some other creator in the industry do.
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So that is how I started with Melior Agency and, yeah, that's where we are right now.
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Yeah, I love that overview.
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It's funny.
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So many times here in these episodes we hear how many entrepreneurs got their start even though they didn't necessarily necessarily plan on it.
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But a lot of it is.
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They realize they've built up those skills and they have that unique vantage point that is valuable to others.
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And even just hearing the way that you talk about content in that overview I think it's it's reveals so much the way that you feel about marketing.
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It's something that caught my eye on your LinkedIn is a very simple sentence you have on your LinkedIn 80% of your client's journey happens before they contact you, and so that's why, hearing you talk about content, I'm thinking to myself yeah, we all start judging the business long before they've heard from us, long before they know us, and I think that as business owners, we have a tendency to think that marketing starts with us.
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We get to dictate those, but people are finding us beforehand.
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Talk to us about that client journey happening before they ever contact us.
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Yes, okay, for sure, you mentioned something really interesting.
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That is how everyone assumes that the content should be about themselves.
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Well, not everyone, but the majority of people start from themselves and try to create content that would be interesting to them or believe it would be interesting for their customers or clients.
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But what we do, and what we believe is the real starting point, is understanding who you are serving.
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So who these people are, what are their challenges, what are their pain points and how does your solution fit into that.
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Because from that you can actually go into marketing further and think about where you can find these people, how you can reach them, how you can nurture them, how you can ensure that they actually become your customers or clients and stay with you for a long time.
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So that is something that I would like to really highlight as a starting point and something that is quite often missed.
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But that's actually the foundation that builds out everything else that comes as your marketing strategy and later in working with other clients.
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Why I'm saying 80%?
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You know there are a lot of statistics.
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Right now I won't point them out because I believe you're also familiar and your listeners as well, with a lot of them.
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Listeners as well with a lot of them.
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But we can all just look at ourselves for for this reference, and try to understand when was the first time, when was the last time that we bought something, the first time that we saw it, for example?
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Or a lot online without reading any referrals, without checking their websites, checking what content do they have, checking whether they actually have the expertise to help us in understanding how detailed they are?
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Because you know, okay, I said I won't mention any other statistics, but I want to point this out as well.
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Um, I think that I read that it takes three seconds for your website to make the first impression to your potential clients or customers.
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So you have that low amount of time to actually convince someone that they should stay on your website, engage further with the content that you have and eventually come to your services or products, whatever that you're offering and deciding either to contact you to purchase or read some further reviews.
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If you understand what I mean and you know, if you lose them in that 8% of time, 8% of the process, somewhere, they'll never reach to where you want to have them, which is in your client base or customer base, and unfortunately, a lot of businesses miss the importance of being helpful before, before you actually acquire customers and clients, and using quantum to help them in making their decisions in choosing you for you yeah, I want to go here with you on the air because I hear this a lot from listeners and I'm sure you, you hear it all the time, because it's so clear to me, even when you reference that statistic, how important it is that we give value, that people can very clearly see from the beginning how valuable our knowledge is, our services, our products, whatever it is that we I've heard from listeners for a long time of well, what if I give away too much?
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How should I differentiate between what I give away for free in my content versus what is only available for paid?
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I'd love to hear the way you navigate that, because, as a podcaster who I've created over 1100 podcast episodes, I give everything away.
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Everyone can hear everything from myself, from our guests, and I'm so appreciative of that.
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I don't worry about that.
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But I'd love to hear how you navigate that with clients, because I'm sure a lot of business owners think that they have to keep some secrets hidden from the rest of the world.
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Yes, yes, exactly.
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That's a common misconception.
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So what I usually do with my clients, I ask them what is the goal?
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With your clients or customers I'll talk more about clients here, because this usually comes from those experts who actually want to monetize their knowledge, whether through some online courses, other structural learning programs, online community and so on.
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So it's usually them having these doubts on how much they should give away for free and what is actually the end goal.
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Why would someone then be willing to pay for their experience and expertise?
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So what I usually tell them is to look at your ICP so your ideal customer and to understand what is your end goal.
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So what do you want to achieve with these learners, with your customers or clients, and then, based on that, see what is your product, what is your offering, and envision your ICP and try to understand, you know, paint their journey to reaching that destination and what are some common challenges, questions they have on this journey, before they actually join your main program, buy your main offer, whatever it is, um.
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So once you have mapped out all of these uh, all these things on on a journey itself, then it's um, and then you can uh form what are some of the things that you want to give away for free, uh, what are some things that you want to maybe price at uh, at entry level pricing, and what are the things that will be in your main offer?
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But, speaking from personal experience and also as a piece of advice that I give to my customers, is that, basically, you can give everything for free.
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Why I'm saying that you can.
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There are a lot of YouTube videos, a lot of other platforms where you have access to various courses, various videos, various blog articles and so on.
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But the thing is, just watching videos or just reading what you're sharing is not enough.
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You also need someone who will sit down, explain it to you in more details or help you actually implement it in more details, or help you actually implement it.
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And I give this as a piece of advice to my clients, especially when we're working on some lead magnets, for example, guides on how to set up something or you understand what is the direction.
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So, even if you prepare this very detailed guide and give it away for free, with all of your knowledge in there, a very low percentage of your ideal customers or clients will be actually able to implement or willing to implement all of these things on their own and in case they reach any problem in that process, or in case they just decide they don't want to invest that much time into solving things on their own, you are the person who is an absolute authority in that field and you're the only person they will reach out to when they actually need help with implementation or further consultation.
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It's an actual way to build Authority and um your service or or product exists for a reason, which means that even if you give away all of your knowledge for free, so to say, there will still be people reaching out to help, to help them implement this in their businesses and move further with it.
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Yeah, really well said.
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I think that that's such an important consideration.
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As someone, like I said, who creates a ton of content, that's what I realized.
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Content is one thing, and it quenches that thirst for knowledge and it shows your trust and your level of authority, but it doesn't handle that implementation or that execution for the people who are consuming it.
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Otherwise, listeners, every single one of you would be executing across all fronts with all the content that we bring to you every single week.
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But of course we don't, because we're humans and we need people to help us and guide us along those journeys.
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With that in mind, I also imagine obviously you work a lot within learning communities and you help people monetize their knowledge so much.
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I would imagine that, just like in the entrepreneurial world, there's a degree of imposter syndrome where people convince themselves well, anyone could find this information for free online.
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You mentioned YouTube videos.
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There's so many of those.
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Podcasts.
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Obviously, business books there's ways that people could learn all of this, but as an online course creator myself as well, I've realized that putting it in a system, putting it in a way that makes it valuable for the person to consume it.
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Think about universities.
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There's nothing inherently secretive about what we learn in university classrooms, but we pay for university because they organize course loads in a way that's effective.
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Talk to us about the nature of online learning communities and online courses and selling knowledge-based products here in 2025, because I feel like a lot of people convince themselves out of that as a viable business model.
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Yes, thank you for this question.
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I have a lot of things to say about learning communities.
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So, as you mentioned, I'm currently working on a book with one of my partners and the title of the book is your Community Needs what you Know.
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So what is the one strong message that I want to send everyone today is that, no matter what your skill level is, no matter what your expertise is, if you have ever created the process yourself, if you have ever helped someone solve a problem, solve a challenge, overcome something, you have ever, ever helped someone solve a problem, solve a challenge, overcome something you have some knowledge, you have some expertise that is valuable valuable for other people and that will actually, um, and that will actually encourage them and motivate them to join you, join your learning community or, uh, join your learning program or just start following you and start learning from you.
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So I know that, again, there is a lot of competition out there and a lot of people are making their own digital products, like courses and so on, but the thing is that there is a community for everyone.
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There are people who are willing to learn from you, no matter what your expertise is, and the most important thing is to just begin and then those people will eventually find you.
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But here, what I also wanted to highlight when it comes to learning communities is that you mentioned again University, and we also have the reference in the book.
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So when all of us went to university, you came to the university and you were organized in different groups.
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You have different classes, you have different modules that gradually became heavier on topics and workload and everything was organized in a system.
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You were also learning quite a lot, with your peers having some group assignments, practical classes as well, and so on.
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So when you came to university, you weren't given just a text book and told you know, read this for yourself and it will all be good.
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After this, you will get the certification, and that is the problem that we're seeing in online environments right now in the past years is that people are just creating courses and not actually providing an environment that offers support and dynamic that we've seen in universities and traditional schools that were proven to be effective ways of learning.
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So what I'm actually talking here about you you probably noticed, and I believe, your learners as well is the cohort based learning, where you're set in a group where other people are.
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Other people are on the same journey as you, trying to achieve a specific goal, a specific milestone, a specific transformation, and you, as a business owner, as a community leader, you have actually set up a system for active learning program that will help them achieve this transformation with other elements of of a learning community that I believe are essential nowadays, which is actually having a community.
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So space for group discussions, space for reflections, space for assignments, sharing them, getting feedback.
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Besides that, also a coaching element, which we believe is also essential, because that's actually where you get to cover additional topics that do not just fit into a course or a workshop or something else that you have as your structured learning program and, besides that, you keep that communication live with your learners.
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You can coach them, you can answer some of their questions, you can understand better what are their challenges and how to support them moving further.
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So those are the main things I would say are essential and needed nowadays when we're talking about online learning spaces and online learning spaces and online learning communities in general yeah, I love that.
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Listeners, as you see, jovana is telling us how to increase the value and better serve the people that we're looking to serve with our knowledge.
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These are such important considerations, and what I want to point out is we can apply this in all different types of businesses.
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Whether you have an online learning community or not, you can ask yourself these big questions of how can I increase the value of my offerings and also how can I better serve my people, so I'm really appreciating these insights.
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Speaking of questions, while we have you here, I have to ask you this question about.
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It's right there in your bio.
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Known for diving incredibly deep into your clients' businesses, I would imagine that that means that you ask really good questions.
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You understand how to analyze and make sense of situations.
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What does that look like?
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How do you go so deep into your clients' businesses?
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What are those questions?
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What are the foundational elements that you're looking for?
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I'd love to know where your eyes go when you assess a business.
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Okay, and that's a good question, and that's something that we also had the challenge with, especially at the very beginning, because clients used to come to me and expect that we write something, create content for example, create them a website, write some landing pages or write blog content, whatever the assets are and without understanding that writing in that entire process is maybe 20% in total, 15 or 20% of the entire process, and that the hardest and biggest work is actually done in that discovery phase, when we are getting to know the business that we're serving their target audience.
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Again, not to repeat myself, but I will let you explain that entire process.
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So it was a bit challenging trying to explain to our clients that we need to do this work first and that it will take some time, but eventually, what we get as the output is something that you will be actually able to use, that will represent you accordingly and that will bring you new clients and prospects, as you have expected.
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So over the years, I have created a business questionnaire.
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That is something that we usually start with, so that's a set of questions that I send out to prospects and new clients to fill out, to provide us with starting points for a research.
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So that's everything related to business goals.
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So what are they trying to achieve as their mission?
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Again, what are their goals and priorities for this coming year?
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And again, where they see the content and the marketing fits fits in their desired picture and desired outcome, I ask a lot of questions again about their audience, their solution and from that from there, we actually go into a research, researching more about the business, having calls and interviews with some of the employees, trying to understand all of the aspects of the business and how they are working together in a synergy.
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Because I always tell people you can't do marketing without being aware of what's happening in the sales and how that process goes and what is the feedback that they get from the prospects.
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And again, you still need to be aware of all the strategic direction of the business so you know how to support them with your expertise and with what you're hired to do.
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So, besides employees, we also interview their clients or customers.
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That's, of course, in agreement with our clients, so it's usually them suggesting a few people that we can reach out to, and then again it's us reviewing those interviews, analyzing them and then taking out inputs that we can use later from the actual wording and vocabulary that their clients or customers use when they are describing their services or products, to understand on a deeper level what are their challenges or what are their motivators, so we can reflect that in the copy and content that is coming in the future.
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So we have the business questionnaire, we have different interviews with different stakeholders, and another important thing that we do is that we look into data.
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So we ask our clients to, of course, give us access to Google Analytics, google Search Console, so we can analyze how things have been going with the website and all of their other channels in the past, try to map out some patterns, something that we have noticed and again, this is something that we collect in a big document where we store all of our conclusions from the research.
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And what's a really important step is again meeting with the client and sharing our conclusions and then getting feedback on how that sounds to them, whether they have also noticed some of these patterns in the past and does it reflect with company's values, mission, vision and where the company is headed in the future.
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Another thing I think I haven't noticed, I haven't mentioned, is that we also analyze competitors.
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I like to say to my clients that the competition becomes irrelevant at some point and that's true for a great deal of industries and markets but why we analyze a competition.
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Again, we can analyze data from their websites, see how many visitors they're getting and so on, but we can also see what is their approach if they are all doing something that's attracting the clients, attracting the visitors.
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Something that maybe we haven't thought about but would be important to consider when working with our client and with all of that, we kind of circle this first discovery phase.
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We meet with our client and then from there we can actually start working.
00:26:35.299 --> 00:27:05.021
But again, as I say at the very beginning, even after this first discovery phase, that is just the foundation of understanding the business that we are serving, and that's the reason why we choose to work only with a selected number of clients, because it really takes time, it takes mutual cooperation and work to get to know the business as it is and to be able to serve them in the best possible way.
00:27:06.010 --> 00:27:07.855
Yeah, I love that overview.
00:27:07.855 --> 00:27:13.720
We have a phrase here in the United States that says you leave no stone unturned, and it sounds like that's what you do.
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:22.805
Is you go through their real life data, their real life analytics, their real life customer stories, as well as all the content that you can find to really create that profile?
00:27:22.805 --> 00:27:35.055
Gosh, listeners, this is an invitation from Jovana for all of us today to do this work about our own businesses, because you can see how well equipped she is to help her clients when she has that foundational understanding.
00:27:35.134 --> 00:27:38.872
So much of our conversation today keeps coming back to those foundational elements.
00:27:38.872 --> 00:27:46.881
We have to understand these things, not guess them, not assume that we know them, not assume that we know our clients, but we actually have to do that research and that work.
00:27:46.881 --> 00:27:48.797
So I so appreciate those insights.
00:27:48.797 --> 00:27:53.613
I always love asking this question at the end of every interview because it's super broad.
00:27:53.613 --> 00:28:06.224
You can take in any direction you want, and that is what's your best piece of advice for listeners knowing that we're being listened to by both entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages of their growth journeys, and also knowing that you are one of us.
00:28:06.224 --> 00:28:14.733
You are a fellow entrepreneur yourself, not just someone who's amazing at all of these things we've talked about today, but with that entrepreneurial hat on, what's that?
00:28:14.874 --> 00:28:30.660
one piece of advice that you want to leave listeners with today so if you're at the very beginning of your journey, it's really important to know, uh, to find one thing that you're really good at, whether that is a service, whether something else.
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:32.083
Find that one thing.
00:28:32.083 --> 00:28:36.857
Find one icp that you're serving and really go deep into that.
00:28:36.857 --> 00:28:46.021
See how you can do your job better, because from my experience, that is something that skyrocketed my business.
00:28:46.021 --> 00:29:09.814
As I said, I never intended to start this and definitely didn't expect it to grow this big, but referrals started coming in and if you're doing your job well, referrals will start coming in and from that you will have more flexibility to make new decisions and to move your business forward.
00:29:09.814 --> 00:29:13.803
But the key message here is start with something that you're good at.
00:29:13.803 --> 00:29:19.182
Find one group of people that you can serve and do your job exceptionally well.
00:29:19.182 --> 00:29:22.961
From there, it will all start developing and growing.
00:29:24.109 --> 00:29:25.815
Yes, I love that advice.
00:29:25.815 --> 00:29:37.098
That is such important advice and I will say as someone who has gone deep into the work that you do in your business, and even from the moment I landed on your LinkedIn, it's so clear to me how much value you put out there.
00:29:37.098 --> 00:29:49.715
I love the way that, even on your personal LinkedIn, you spell out for business owners here's the things that are important, here's the way that most people think that marketing should be done and here's the patterns that I've identified that we can fix.
00:29:49.715 --> 00:29:52.122
And so you're out there giving so much value.
00:29:52.122 --> 00:29:54.453
So it's no surprise to me how quickly you've grown.
00:29:54.453 --> 00:30:01.384
I also know that listeners will be keen with a little bit of me shouting out all the great things that you're doing, as well as hearing your genius here today.
00:30:01.384 --> 00:30:04.337
They'll be keen to go deeper into your world of work.
00:30:04.337 --> 00:30:05.661
So drop those links on us.
00:30:05.661 --> 00:30:07.334
Where should listeners go from here?
00:30:08.979 --> 00:30:14.193
Okay, the most important address would be my LinkedIn profile, as you mentioned.
00:30:14.193 --> 00:30:19.789
I share some of the advice there, um, so you can always reach out to me on linkedin.
00:30:19.789 --> 00:30:20.751
You can find me.
00:30:20.751 --> 00:30:22.335
Uh, you're gonna see me.
00:30:22.335 --> 00:30:24.259
It's working at my legal agency.
00:30:24.259 --> 00:30:33.551
We will also start be being more active on our company page and from there you can also find links to our website and everything.
00:30:33.551 --> 00:30:50.108
And also, an important thing, once the book is live, it will definitely be first shared on my LinkedIn profile, so that's definitely the best address to find me and from there you'll find all of the other links that you can follow yes, and listeners, you already know the drill.
00:30:50.130 --> 00:30:53.960
We're making it as easy as possible for you to find those links down below in the show notes.
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:55.634
So don't be shy, you don't have to try to spell Jovana's name.
00:30:55.634 --> 00:30:57.439
I will say it's not so easy to spell, just like a lot of people say about my last name.
00:30:57.439 --> 00:30:58.119
So just check the show notes.
00:30:58.119 --> 00:30:59.384
So don't be shy, you don't have to try to spell Jovana's name.
00:30:59.384 --> 00:31:01.169
I will say it's not so easy to spell, just like a lot of people say about my last name.
00:31:01.169 --> 00:31:07.057
So just check the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode, and you can click right on through to her LinkedIn profile.
00:31:07.057 --> 00:31:31.481
Otherwise, jovana, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
00:31:31.481 --> 00:31:32.563
Thank you, brian, for having me.
00:31:32.563 --> 00:31:36.424
It was really my pleasure and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.
00:31:36.684 --> 00:31:45.178
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.
00:31:45.178 --> 00:31:47.238
These are not sponsored episodes.
00:31:47.238 --> 00:31:48.816
These are not infomercials.
00:31:48.816 --> 00:31:52.210
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.
00:31:52.210 --> 00:31:58.595
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.
00:31:58.595 --> 00:32:03.279
Believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome wantrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:11.781
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.
00:32:11.781 --> 00:32:13.095
We also have live chat.
00:32:13.095 --> 00:32:17.740
If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewantrepreneurshowcom.
00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:19.143
Initiate a live chat.
00:32:19.143 --> 00:32:28.565
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
