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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I'm going to have a giant disclaimer at the top of today's episode, and that is this is not another episode about AI, and that's because this is not your typical guest when it comes to talking about AI.
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I can very comfortably say here, publicly on the air, that this is probably the most intentional AI thinker, speaker and visionary that I've come across.
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I'm so grateful to have interacted with this person before and done some really cool work.
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He actually came behind the scenes and spoke to our guest community of all of our entrepreneur to entrepreneur guests, and that is because I so respect his work and the way that he thinks.
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So you're all in for a treat today.
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Let me introduce you to today's incredible guest.
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His name is Justin Coates.
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Justin is a passionate leader in AI integration and personal development, with a journey that spans the Marine Corps where spoiler alert just casually he was a helicopter pilot, just to show you just an ounce of how brilliant today's guest is.
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He has also been involved in technology and, of course, entrepreneurship.
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He brings a fresh perspective to how we think about AI, making complex ideas simple and usable for anyone.
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Justin believes in the power of people, not just technology, to drive real change, and he's dedicated to helping leaders tap into AI's potential while keeping the human element at the forefront.
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So a lot of those things are probably not typical things that you hear within the context of AI, which is why I'm so excited.
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I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Justin Coates.
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All right, justin, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first.
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Welcome to the show, thank you.
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Brian, it's amazing, and what an awesome intro.
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Thank you, that's so cool, heck.
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Yeah, I do have one slight correction I didn't become a helicopter pilot until after the Marine Corps.
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Oh dang.
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Well then, Justin, I would argue that actually makes you even more interesting.
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Holy cow, I thought that was part of your Marine Corps service.
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So one thank you for your service.
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To wait, that just means that you did even more extraordinary things in consequential order, which is just a great segue.
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Take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Justin?
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How did you start doing all these cool things?
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Yeah.
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So I guess I could start with the Marine Corps story.
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I had a dream and goal of being a helicopter pilot, and when I realized that life was really hard and it was actually expensive to become a helicopter pilot, I decided to join the Marine Corps.
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I also had some life circumstances that I wanted and needed to take care of.
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My family had a young family at that time, and one of the driving forces for joining was that they flew amazing helicopters and really big machines, and I figured, if I'm going to be a pilot, I might as well know how these things fly and how they work.
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And so that's what I did for to be a pilot, I might as well know how these things fly and how they work.
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And so that's what I did.
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For four and a half years I took helicopters apart, put them back together and kept them operational and safe to fly for the marine pilots that actually flew them.
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And so after that I became a helicopter pilot, but actually didn't go make money doing it.
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I decided to go fly UAVs, drones.
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These were, you know, nine feet long by 12 foot long wingspans, and I flew those as a government contractor, and shortly after that is when I actually first jumped into my first business, I learned how to sell products on Amazon, and so you know, going from mechanic to pilot to new era technology UAVs, controlling them from a computer, to helping businesses sell their products on Amazon, and then now what we do.
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So we had that business for four years and we got acquired in 22, worked with that company for a year, left in 23 and jumped into AI headfirst, and what we do now is we teach people, we have AI education and then integration and implementation, which is probably a little bit of what we'll talk about today, but the underlying theme in all of this is all of these are extremely complex systems that have multiple pieces, core elements of them that are required to work in tandem with each other in order to get the best result.
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So you know, helicopters that's don't crash, don't fall out of the sky.
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For Amazon, that was how do you position your products differently than your competitors that are showing up on the same page?
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And for AI you touched on it in the intro it's how do we not lose the human element while take advantage of this amazing technology that we now have?
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And so that's kind of the journey.
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I love that overview, justin.
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I'm so appreciative of you walking us through your journey because it sounds chronological, it sounds linear in nature, but I love the fact that you've taken those common themes and threads across all of those experiences and one has built upon the next, which is why it sounds that way when you present that backstory to us on a podcast episode.
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But what I really appreciate this is something and you know how much I love and admire your work from the second that we first had a video call together, and it's because I don't hear most people talking about AI integration, justin, and I feel like you just you touch the tip of the iceberg with us with regards to your view on AI needs to integrate with the humans, ai needs to integrate with the businesses, but on that macro scale, what does AI integration mean to you?
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Why is it just you right now, and of course there are some others, but why are you leading that push?
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Why is that such an important topic for you?
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You right now, and of course there are some others, but why are you leading that push?
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Why is that such an important topic for you?
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Well, I've been learning and using and building my business with AI, artificial intelligence for two and a half years, you know, really, since that chat GPT moment, and it feels like we've done five years worth of work.
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And so the way that I process that and kind of think through that is, if humans don't start using this technology now and we're already two and a half years in, you know, chronologically we're two and a half years in to this AI journey, this new industry that's happening, how far behind are they going to be when they start using it in six months, when they feel a little bit more comfortable and and it's it's an incredible gap that that gets created.
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And I know you've probably seen this firsthand and experience in your business.
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You know you using artificial intelligence to do your job versus not, and your capability to get 10 times more done using it at a quality that you want your work to be done right, so you're not losing quality in exchange for speed.
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You don't have to make that exchange anymore.
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And so really, for us, it's how do we help humans get along this journey a little bit faster while feeling more comfortable about handing off work to an artificial intelligence system, a really smart system that might know more about their job than they do, might know more about their job than they do.
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So how do we really help the humans along this journey and work with these AI systems and that's really the foundation that we approach this integration and implementation from is there's a human element here and humans don't like change and we're a little bit slower than computer systems, and so how do we kind of bring the two closer together and close that gap to really have a human plus AI driven world?
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Yeah, I love the way you phrase that, Justin.
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What you really make me think of is Reddit.
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I love scrolling through Reddit.
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That's one of my guilty pleasures.
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The comments are the best.
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For sure, and when I scroll through Redditdit, I really love any and all ai conversations always revolve around benchmarking, and people are having chat, gpt, take, you know, the bar exam and the real estate exam and all these different tests to see how it fares as compared to the average human, and so that's how people are bumping up and measuring the.
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The I part of artificial intelligence is, they're saying, how intelligent is it?
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When I hear you talk about these things, though, what I really take away, and probably what excites me the most, is your open recognition that, yeah, ai is very smart and we can unleash it in a lot of ways in our businesses, but what I also hear is the importance of the human element into that, in that the two truly play together and bring out the best in each other.
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For those people who are wondering, is this just going to replace all humans which I hear that argument all the time what's that human essential ingredient?
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What is the value add that we have into this equation?
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We have experience, brian, we have life experience.
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We have human to human interaction and you know to kind of put a period on that statement is I started this business by creating a digital online course and, yes, I was one of the like million, 2 million people that said buy my course and I'll teach you how to use chat GPT.
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It failed miserably, like on its face, and in that moment I realized that this, truly this journey for humans, this truly has to be human to human, because there's an energy exchange.
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When you're talking to another human in person, when you're having coffee and learning about their journey and where they're at and their perspective and how they're approaching just their daily life.
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There's truly this human element in all of it.
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And that's where I realized, okay, it can't just be a digital course, it can't just be a PDF walkthrough or a book that says here's a thousand prompts, now you know how to use it.
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That's not it.
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And through the last year and a half of training and exposure to individuals just starting out on their journey or maybe using ChatGPT since it was released, it was released.
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The core element is if you can explain very precisely your job, your task, how you do it, the experience you need, the perspective you want to have in performing that task, or that thing that sets your work with AI apart from someone else who doesn't embed those core elements into it, who doesn't provide that experience that you alone, as an individual human, bring to the table.
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And so it really becomes that piece that your uniqueness, that makes you human, actually is your superpower when you're using AI.
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It levels you up because that's your experience, brian.
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Yeah, justin.
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I want to get.
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I want to give listeners a little bit of behind the scenes, because the first time that you and I ever got on a video call together, you know a lot of people want to say, oh, look at all these cool things that's happening with AI.
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I'll never forget.
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You asked me.
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You were like Brian, what are some of the things that you're working on?
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And I shared a few client projects and a few things happening behind the scenes internally and you then screen share and you said, oh, look at the cool way we can build out this context and give it to AI.
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And it was so cool seeing a lot of different pieces of what you do come into play the prompting, the inputs, the how you craft the outputs in a format that you're really looking for.
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I really saw the power of the way that you go about that and so, because I've seen your work in action, I'd love for you to introduce listeners to what nicheai is.
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I think that the way you operate.
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It's cool hearing about the originating building blocks of an online course.
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So glad you got out of that, justin.
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Talk to us about how you implement AI and the way that you operate and serve others.
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Now how you implement.
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AI and the way that you operate and serve others now.
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Yeah, the way that we operate now is we have AI education and training and it's human to human and you know we live in a digital world so it can be virtual if you want, but a group of people.
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And then also I do in-person trainings and also I do in-person trainings and what we do with our training is we take you through the basic, intermediate and advanced usage of ChatGPT or large language models.
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You know sneak peek, we're building our own, so hopefully we can release that soon.
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But we walk you through just the fundamentals of what is AI.
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What is a large language model?
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How do you talk to it?
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How do you prompt it to get and do exactly what you want?
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So we walk through that and then beyond, that is where we have a longer term relationship with organizations that understand that this is a journey and they want to take the next step and they want to keep taking next step and they want to keep taking that next step and move their business into the future.
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And for those companies, we really take them down to the foundation and say how are you built?
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What are your processes?
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Let's rebuild with AI tools in the middle of it, and so that's the structure that we kind of are implementing this year.
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I think that's so cool, justin, the structure that we kind of are implementing this year.
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I think that's so cool, justin, because a lot of people would look at your business and probably be like, oh, he works inside of AI all day, but look at the majority of your work, so to speak.
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It feels weird calling it that for you, but the majority of your work is with humans, helping humans solve their real life problems, and I think that that's what makes your approach and your business so very cool.
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When I think about the nature of the work that you do, you couldn't help yourself, justin, because you equally like business and you love processes and operations, and so it makes me want to ask you because I also know that you bring that understanding to the table is how do you help others decide where and when to apply AI to their business?
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I would imagine I feel like duct tape has kind of lost some of its mainstream appeal, but you know, once upon a time everyone was like, oh, just throw some duct tape on it.
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And I feel like AI has become the duct tape of 2025, especially.
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Everyone wants to apply it everywhere, but how do you choose where and when to actually use it?
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Um, that's actually a really, really big thing that you know leaders in your business, whether you're a solopreneur or a CEO of you know 100 employees or 1000 employees or more.
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The thing you really need to understand is, like, what is your knowledge base with AI?
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Where are you coming out?
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Are you using it?
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Or are you just thinking it's another software tool that you can purchase and put a team in charge of and say do this?
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It's not that kind of technology and the companies that are starting to use it as duct tape or as a bandaid to fill a gap or make this one thing a little bit more efficient, without truly understanding its true, its potential and impact it can have on your business.
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You're not going to last that long in comparison to a company that maybe takes a little bit slower of a path right now but is completely deconstructing their processes and then reconstructing them their processes and then reconstructing them, rebuilding them, with AI in the middle.
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So it really takes a lot of thought.
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Where are you at in your journey and how are you leading your people?
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There's a massive leadership element to all of this.
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You have to please actually just be a leader, like lead from the front and then determining where and which department or process you deconstruct first is really dependent on your business, and after you get through the learning phase, your big pie in the sky.
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If we can automate this process from this point to this point, then we can, you know, not have 10 people managing that.
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Your concept of that, that big automated thing that's, you know, ai in the middle, is that changes.
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The more you learn, the more that will change, and so it really comes down to learn how you use AI, use it all the time, share with your teammates, have them share with you, and then start to plan out where in the business do you want to get your most efficient and productive employees to really go to the next level?
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These aren't, you know, percent increment changes.
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It's not small incremental changes.
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These are two, oftentimes two to 5X to 10X gains we're looking for, and it takes time to do that, and so what you're really looking at is which processes take a lot of time, a lot of mental capacity, a lot of energy from your employees and start to work through those after you go through this learning phase.
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Yeah, Justin, I'll confess this to you here while we're on the air together, is that?
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Part of why I enjoy hearing you talk about AI is I just know that you work with so many different types of clients, so many different types of business leaders, and so when I hear you talk about AI, I'm viewing it through the lens of oh, Justin sees AI at all different business sizes, and I think the reason why that excites me the most is because, in a lot of cases, when people talk about access to capital, it doesn't get me very excited, Justin, because I'm just like well you know, as a smaller entrepreneur.
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We don't have the same access to capital that Fortune 500 companies that any company that has IPO'd already has, Whereas when you talk about AI, I think to myself it's the great equalizer.
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Anything that a Fortune 500 company can do with AI, I can also do with AI.
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Talk to us about that landscape of big business versus all the way down to the solopreneur level.
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Is it the great equalizer?
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Is it truly an even playing field?
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Are there ways that us small guys can have a little bit of an advantage in the way we're rolling it out or the way we're thinking about it?
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I'd love to hear those insights yeah, yeah, I'm just like absolutely, um, it is.
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It is a, you know, great equalizer and I think you know, to be fair to you know, fortune 500 or or better, or you know, solopreneur or the five or 10 person team like you know right now, a five or ten person team, you're not going after a billion dollar contracts.
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You know you're like so the equalizer.
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In that way, you're not just immediately, overnight, going to get you a giant windfall contract that changes your life, let alone your business, and so that's a lot of what fortune 500s are targeting is like those massive deals, but that's the world of.
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What Fortune 500s are targeting is like those massive deals, but that's the world and environment that they're playing in.
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But, brian, I'm talking to, you know, vp C-suite of 9000 employee companies and they're asking the same questions that a solopreneur who's just starting a marketing agency are asking what is it?
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How do I use it?
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How are my people going to use it?
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How do we need to change our processes?
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You know what KPIs should we measure?
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So how should we measure progress?
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How should we measure, you know, the actual impact that AI is having.
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So it really is a moment in history where people who have been a CEO of a Fortune 500 company for 10 years and somebody who is now just becoming an entrepreneur.
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You're on the same foundation.
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You're at the same place of what is this technology and how are we actually going to be using it?
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Yeah, it's so cool.
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Yeah, it's probably so few times in the course of history Probably the last time was when the worldwide web came to mass adoption that we're all asking ourselves the same question back then.
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You know, I don't know what the equivalent was before Amazon existed, but whatever the big box retailers, or Sears let's call Sears out it was probably them at the time.
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Sears was probably saying what the heck do we do about the internet?
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Just like your local pizza place was, and so it is such a cool time to think about that.
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Justin, I want to put you on the spot here, but I know you're going to take it in stride, so it's not really going to put you on the spot.
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I've seen some of the very creative, empowerful ways that you personally use AI behind the scenes in your own business, so I guess the part where I'm going to put you on the spot here in real time is share with listeners some of those ways that you use it for business, but also, justin, to show the widespread impacts it can have in our lives.
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How are you also using it personally as well?
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Oh man, no-transcript.
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Now you're making me sad, though Screen sharing is the only thing we can't do as podcasters.
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There's a button that says screen share right there, fine, well, maybe we put a clip in later.
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Sorry, listeners, so maybe I can describe how to do that.
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But to answer your second question first how am I using it?
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You know, in my personal life I use it to streamline my shopping.
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I don't like shopping and so I ask it, for you know, we build a meal plan as a family and then we have it, you know, create the shopping list based on the recipe, but then I have it in table format.
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Give me, you know, everything organized by the department of the store so I can just quickly and easily go in and do my little loop and get out.
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You know, another way that I use is I, you know, multiple times a week I work out with this group it's called F3.
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It's a men's workout group outside and sometimes I lead the workouts in the morning and I use this as a tool to help me build workouts and, you know, and get everybody motivated and just kind of crush us with a really awesome, you know, fitness routine.
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So those are some of the ways that I'm using it personally in my life.
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You know, the really fun thing is it really can be used for any aspect of of what you're doing.
00:23:18.464 --> 00:23:54.863
Um, you know we my kids and my, my wife and I are trying to plan a summer trip where we just travel around and check out a bunch of big areas, um, you know, big spots, points of interest to to hit in the United States, and so we're having it plan, kind of our itinerary map, our plan out, our get us hotels and where we can stop and eat and do all that stuff, and so we're using it as just this planning mechanism, this planning tool, which involves the kids, and what's really cool is because it has so much knowledge and information and it's connected to the internet.
00:23:54.863 --> 00:24:14.730
It can give you like a little summary of why you would want to stop in this place or some cool things to check out that you may not know about, and this research would take us hours or days to really figure out, and now we can do it, you know, almost real time, and so that's been a lot of fun.
00:24:16.173 --> 00:24:20.085
Now down to kind of the you know, the brass tacks, if you will, the.
00:24:20.085 --> 00:24:37.315
You know, the actual tangible takeaway here for everybody that's watching or listening is when you start to talk to these systems, these large language models, you really have to kind of break down your task, and this is difficult.
00:24:37.315 --> 00:24:56.309
This has been probably one of the hardest things for humans to do in my training over the last year and a half is just to describe the job that you're doing, describe the task that you're doing to such a micro degree that you know you can no longer go any lower.
00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:58.446
You've found the origin point.
00:24:58.446 --> 00:25:03.546
This is exactly step one, this is exactly step two, this is exactly step three.
00:25:03.546 --> 00:25:21.433
And if you can do that with your task and then explain it to ChatGPT or Gemini or soon our niche AI platform, the output you're going to get is going to be you know, 80, 90% of exactly what you wanted.
00:25:21.433 --> 00:25:32.251
And then you have your little human element in there, where you, you know, edit, refine, you, polish that and put your human experience, your human intelligence into it.
00:25:32.251 --> 00:25:44.296
And, if I can, just a little bit more, brian, the prompting methodology that we teach is you know, you need instruction to this system.
00:25:44.296 --> 00:25:46.684
What task are you working on?
00:25:46.684 --> 00:25:49.810
What is the immediate thing that you need done?
00:25:49.810 --> 00:25:51.173
And describe that.
00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:56.592
And then the next layer, the next element of this prompt, is information.
00:25:56.592 --> 00:26:03.483
What information should this system know that's directly related to the task you're trying to accomplish.
00:26:03.483 --> 00:26:05.844
And then there's context.
00:26:05.844 --> 00:26:12.612
The third element Is there extra context, extra information about this task?
00:26:12.612 --> 00:26:19.231
That is nice to know, but maybe is not directly required to complete the task.
00:26:20.020 --> 00:26:37.708
So this would be like if you are running a marketing strategy and you're trying to get a new you know a new 90 day strategy, context would be you know what did you do the same time last year and what were the results, and then what did you do the last 90 days, so you don't repeat, right?
00:26:37.708 --> 00:26:41.851
So that's like extra fun information, but not required to complete the task.
00:26:41.851 --> 00:26:46.806
And then the last one is end goal, like what are you trying to achieve?
00:26:46.806 --> 00:26:49.647
What's the end result here?
00:26:49.647 --> 00:26:53.830
Is it part of a longer term strategy or is it just a one off task?
00:26:53.830 --> 00:27:01.365
And if you have those four elements, that's again, that's information, instruction, context and end goal.
00:27:01.365 --> 00:27:14.006
And if you have those four elements inside your prompt the first time, you're going to get a way way better output than if you just went to it and said I need a 90 day marketing plan for my business.
00:27:14.006 --> 00:27:15.288
Thanks Bye.
00:27:16.290 --> 00:27:22.226
Yeah, listeners, when Justin talks about these layers and you hear him talking about these four components of his prompts.
00:27:22.226 --> 00:27:25.803
I've seen his prompts firsthand when we're not podcasting.
00:27:25.803 --> 00:27:30.477
He has screen shared with me and literally his prompts are long.
00:27:30.477 --> 00:27:34.468
They include all of these things on there he's not just talking about.
00:27:34.468 --> 00:27:37.342
It would be nice for a large language model to have these things.
00:27:37.342 --> 00:27:43.054
He is baking it into the way he writes these prompts and submits them to the large language model.
00:27:43.054 --> 00:27:53.069
So if you're wondering why justin is better than most of us are when it comes to ai's inputs and outputs, it's because of the amount of effort that he's putting into the input.
00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:55.603
So, justin, it's really cool hearing these things in real time.
00:27:55.884 --> 00:28:02.328
Quick shout out to f3, because we've had the founder of F3, tim Whitmire, here on the show in episode 826.
00:28:02.328 --> 00:28:09.059
He's a near and dear friend of this show and it's really cool to see how much all of our work really has those downstream effects and impacts.
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:15.867
Because, justin, I know how much you love F3 and you've got a really cool community out there in Oregon that you all partake in it together.
00:28:15.867 --> 00:28:19.342
So always cool to hear those insights.
00:28:19.362 --> 00:28:25.626
Justin, I don't want to let you go just yet, but I knew that time would fly by, because the two of us, anytime we get together, we just end up talking about a million things.
00:28:25.626 --> 00:28:40.655
Before I let you go, though, I want you to switch caps for a second, and I want you to take your AI hat off and put your fellow entrepreneur hat on, because the question I ask at the end of every episode is what's your best piece of advice?
00:28:40.655 --> 00:28:48.948
Knowing that we're being listened to by both entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages of their own growth journeys, and knowing that you're not just great at AI, you're also building your business.
00:28:48.948 --> 00:28:51.067
You're one of us, a fellow entrepreneur.
00:28:51.067 --> 00:28:54.527
So what's that one piece of advice that you wanna leave our listeners with?
00:28:55.641 --> 00:28:58.009
Oh man, brian, this is a big one.
00:28:58.009 --> 00:29:11.380
I think what's showing up for me a lot lately is decision-making, um, the power in making the right decision at the right time.
00:29:11.380 --> 00:29:23.226
And I, as I say that, I understand that knowing what the right decision is and what the right time is is so ambiguous and unknown.
00:29:23.226 --> 00:29:28.669
You don't really know until afterwards, right, until you can measure the result of that decision.
00:29:28.669 --> 00:29:33.211
But how that's been showing up for me lately is through alignment.
00:29:34.071 --> 00:29:44.136
You know, for Niche, this is a really big thing for us is we're on this not just to start a business, not just to grow a business, not just to make a lot of money.
00:29:44.136 --> 00:29:47.057
We're in this to usher humanity into this new era.
00:29:47.057 --> 00:29:54.633
That is our mission and that's our guiding force and anchor that we make every decision with.
00:29:54.633 --> 00:30:01.692
And so it's alignment to what our mission is, to what our purpose is.
00:30:01.692 --> 00:30:03.323
Why are we building this business?
00:30:03.323 --> 00:30:04.846
Who are we trying to impact?
00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:27.849
And if we can look at an opportunity that's being presented to us and ask, is this in alignment with the direction we're going with our business, is this in alignment with the mission that we have and that we're trying to fulfill, and we can say yes, wholeheartedly, no resistance, then we make that decision and we move forward with it.
00:30:28.141 --> 00:30:45.973
Or if we look at it and say this would be a great opportunity to make some money, but it doesn't align with our business, it doesn't align with how we move forward, we have to pass on it and you know I've recently done that and it's hard, you know.
00:30:45.973 --> 00:30:52.834
I had an offer to make $2,000 real, you know, not quick but relatively quickly, and I had to pass.
00:30:52.834 --> 00:30:59.292
It just was not in alignment with our mission and how we want to move forward as a company.
00:30:59.292 --> 00:31:29.980
And so just being very confident in the decisions that you are making and why you are making those decisions, and have a guiding force of what is alignment for you in that can really help one reduce your anxiety with how your business is going, because you're, you know you're moving forward in alignment, um, but to really help make the proper decision, the most right decision in the moment, um.
00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:32.367
So that'd be, that'd be my advice right now.
00:31:33.069 --> 00:31:47.396
Yes, I love and so deeply appreciate that advice, Justin, especially coming from you, because I think that it is yet another example of just how intentional you are about the way that you view life, the way that you view business, of course, the way that you view AI.
00:31:47.721 --> 00:31:49.508
I think it's that level of intentionality.
00:31:49.508 --> 00:32:02.836
You talk about confidence in decision making, but I feel like intentionality also is one of those core ingredients in there, because the confidence only comes when you're that intentional about what your mission is, what your purpose is and what direction you want to go into.
