WEBVTT
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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and if there's one thing that I've learned in 16 plus years of being an entrepreneur, it is that we are so much more equipped to go far if we do it with a team, and that's why I personally am so very excited about today's guest, because this is someone that you give her a team, she's going to get extraordinary results with them.
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This is someone who not only has had an incredible professional career, but she's one of us, she's a fellow entrepreneur that we're all going to learn a lot from.
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So let me tell you all about today's guest.
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Her name is Kim Haar.
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Kim is a consultant, facilitator and speaker who demystifies what great leaders do to bring forth more value, listening, teamwork, trust and extraordinary results from the people around them.
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After 26 years in the semiconductor industry, including more than two decades in leadership and executive positions at Intel, kim now works with seasoned executives, leadership teams, boards and rising leaders as they face challenges and opportunity in masterful and generative new ways.
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So if you're listening to this episode, kim is speaking to you.
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You are one of those either existing leaders or rising leaders.
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This episode has to do with every single one of us in our entrepreneurial journey, so I'm excited about it.
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I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Kim Haar.
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All right, kim, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first, welcome to the show.
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Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
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Heck, yes, you've got a lot to live up to today.
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I'm going to toot your horn quite a bit and your ability to get results out of teams.
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But before we get there, take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Kim?
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How did you start doing all these cool things?
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Oh, wow, that's such a great question.
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First I'll just say I'm the youngest, so I've been feisty kind of since I came out of the womb, I'll say.
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And then after that I just I struggled with what to be in life, stumbled into engineering by learning about it at a frat party, to be honest with you and have been practicing engineering since the 90s.
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And you know nerds if you're a fellow nerd like me, nerds we study inanimate objects and then we get in the workplace and it turns out we have to work with people.
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And I was very late to the work with people game and have been studying it and learning about it and realizing it that it, together with engineering, is what makes technical leaders great.
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And so I did that for almost 30 years in tech.
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And now I started my own coaching and consulting company to kind of play on a bigger stage and impact more people, and I love it yeah, I love Kim.
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We are for sure going to talk about all those key things about the people component of it, but talk to us about that transition.
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I'm always so fascinated by people who had incredible careers, like you did, and then said you know what?
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I want?
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To start from zero.
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I'm going to start a business completely from scratch.
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What did that transition look like?
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I'm going to start a business completely from scratch.
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What did that transition look like?
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It was very long.
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To be honest with you, I started dreaming of starting my own company probably 15 years ago.
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I really struggle when I work for people I don't respect.
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I had some amazing managers and leaders and some not so great.
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So I, as any good engineer does, I started a spreadsheet.
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I started interviewing entrepreneurs, interviewing coaches and consultants.
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I wrote a business plan and then I just did some financial work and it took probably five or six years to build up to the courage.
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And what ultimately led me to make the switch was stepping back and looking at my life.
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I wasn't healthy.
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I was working too many hours.
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It wasn't.
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I was surviving, but I wasn't thriving.
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So made a deal with my partner Give me three years.
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We have some business goals.
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If I don't hit them, I'll go back and into the job market, but if I do, then the business was successful.
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But if I do, then the business was successful.
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So a little bit of planning and mentorship and thoughtfulness and a whole lot of dive in and let's see where it goes yeah, kim, I'm gonna pick on something right away that you just shared with us, because it's obviously such a core part of your journey, which is you've had bosses you enjoyed working for and with, and you've had bosses that you haven't.
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What's the difference?
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Because obviously we're talking about leaders here today, so let's start getting into that.
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What is that difference between leaders that we all enjoy working with and those that don't get the best out of us?
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Oh, that's such a great question.
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In my opinion, it comes down to fundamentally do they care?
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A leader who cares and realizes that they're leading from behind or servant leadership you may have heard it called where they care about the team more than themselves is a leader.
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That's going to get a lot out of the team.
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If the leader is in the position for themselves, for their title, for their growth, you just can't hide that and that comes out and the team is not nearly as effective.
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Yeah for sure.
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Talk to us more about that, because I feel like it's something that we all face as entrepreneurs is that when we start our businesses, we believe that we are the ones with the answers, and when clients ask us questions, we want to have the answers and we view ourselves, or we tend to view ourselves, as those answer machines as opposed to the enablers.
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And that's something that I think comes with maturity, regardless of age.
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I think it comes with just experience, and so I'd love to hear your perspectives on that style of leadership, because it really to me it sounds more like uplifting others.
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Who cares about ourselves, because a rising tide lifts all boats and we're inevitably going to go with it.
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Right, I love what you're saying there, because we get rewarded for knowing the answers.
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Right.
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You start your career, particularly if you start in corporate America or wherever you know answers, you get rewarded, you get promoted, you get all of those things.
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And at some point you look around and either your role is so big or your organization is so big it's impossible to know all the answers.
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And that humility when you all the answers, and that humility when you make that switch and that humility becomes I need to surround myself with great people and shift from knowing the answer to asking great questions.
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So if you look at really effective and amazing leaders, they shift to asking great questions as opposed to spouting answers.
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Yeah, kim, I want to talk about the role, because I think that's such an important thing that you've already called out, because I think about what leaders did before they were leading, and whether we're talking about a nine to five job or us as business owners, like when I started my business, guess what?
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I was doing everything and, kim, you can relate to this as entrepreneurs, that's what we had to do when we first started our businesses.
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But when you grow and when you start to scale, you then get to hire and now, all of a sudden, instead of doing all the things, we're managing the people that we have hired to do those things.
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Obviously our role changes.
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It's funny because we clearly were good at doing those things and that's what got us to grow, but now, all of a sudden, we're no longer doing those things.
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How's that role change?
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What the heck are we supposed to do with ourselves once we achieve that leadership position?
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Another great question.
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I think that one is paying attention to your surroundings and really paying attention to the environment.
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One thing I remember when I first launched my business, I was horrified and mortified at being a beginner.
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It had been years since I'd been a beginner and I didn't know how to run a CRM.
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I didn't know how to post on social media.
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Every day I was doing that solo entrepreneur thing.
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I was humbled with something I didn't know.
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And then to your point as your business grows and scales and you start hiring.
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As your business grows and scales and you start hiring, I think it shifts the.
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The analogy I like to use is the universe shifts and the leader goes from being the center of the universe to being more of orbiting their team, and so their job is to uplift, support, remove roadblocks for the team.
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But the team is the center of the universe, no longer is the leader.
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And so you're out paving the way, removing roadblocks, maybe getting capital, maybe building, you know, maybe you're doing business development while your team is delivering all of the core things that you're asking them to do?
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Does that resonate?
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Does that make any sense?
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Yeah, it absolutely resonates especially.
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I mean, you and I talked about analogies and we're definitely going to get there in today's conversation.
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I'm a big sports fan, so I love team analogies and when I think about that, we've got the head coach, we've got the captain, we've got the players.
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Using those analogies, let's keep rolling with.
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That is, how do we structure and shape the team in a way that everybody's going to succeed?
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Because in any team environment, we've got the star players, we've got the role players, we've got the ones who love attention, we've got the ones who don't love being in the headlines.
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Talk to us about formulating the correct team so that they can flourish.
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Oh, you know, I love the sports analogy because you look at, there's such a variety of coaches in any sport, whatever pick your sport, but even all sports, there's such a variety of coaches who have their unique style and you'll watch.
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There are players that will go wherever the coach goes.
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Even now in NCAA sports in America with the transfer portal, you'll see coaches or team players following their coach right and what?
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At the end of the day, the coach actually can't play the game.
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They're not, they can't, they're not allowed to touch the ball or the racket or whatever it is of your sport.
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So what is that coach doing?
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And some coaches are really good at scouting.
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Some are more good at tactics of the team, more developing the players.
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So, knowing what you're good at, and then hiring or augmenting your coaching staff with maybe what you're not so great at in order to build your best team.
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And the other thing I'll say about this coaching analogy is, if you look at some sport particular teams, what you'll find is that you can get a ton of superstars, maybe four let's take basketball, for example four or five superstars on a team and maybe they'll gel and maybe they won't.
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And in my opinion, it comes down to in that locker room.
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What is the coach supporting, what culture are they allowing and what culture are they sort of amplifying and building?
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And when you see the teams, that gel.
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Maybe they don't have amazing talent or maybe they do.
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There's a whole lot in the background going on.
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If you've ever seen Ted Lasso, certainly that's a great example of this.
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Where in that locker room, what is the culture and specifically what's allowed and what isn't allowed in that team culture?
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Yeah, I think that's so important.
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I love the fact that you shouted out Ted Lasso one of the best TV shows of all time, for sure, and when I think about that, there's obviously so many personalities within that locker room, and you're right, I've actually never thought about the fact that some coaches players will follow them.
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You use the NCAA transfer market as an example.
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John Calipari when he famously went from Kentucky to where is he these days?
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Alabama, arkansas, not sure, arkansas yeah, all of his recruits went with him, because he knows how to get the best out of them.
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It's not a coincidence that they ended up at Kentucky, and I think that's so important for us to realize that there's different styles.
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You called it out.
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I never thought about the fact that there's been 20 legendary NBA coaches.
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It's not one trait, and I think, in business terms, we have a tendency of asking what are the traits of good leaders?
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Well, there's different leaders.
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With that said, though, there seems to be some sort of formula in getting people to work well together, because, using the Ted Lasso example, they all have different personalities, yet the personalities fit together.
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They avoid those clashes.
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How much of what we do as leaders is understanding personality types, understanding love languages.
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I'll interject that into the conversation.
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How much of it is understanding the different human dynamics in order to have the work succeed?
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uh, you know, I think you'll get varied opinions depending on who you ask.
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From my perspective, the higher up you go, either in corporate america or scope, or the bigger your company if you're an entrepreneur the more important it is.
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If you're just managing a small team, you know you don't have that many personalities.
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If you're not in a highly matrixed organization, maybe it's not such a big deal.
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But as you climb and as you go up the ladder or as you grow in your company's size or scope, I think it becomes a bigger and bigger deal.
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And to me it doesn't matter what your you know, whether it's crucial conversations, love languages, like you measure mentioned.
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I'm a big fan of a book called extraordinary teams it doesn't really matter.
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It's what they all have in common is shared commitment.
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So if you're, if you can find shared commitment, like you and I are having this conversation, we have some shared commitment.
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Once we have that are having this conversation, we have some shared commitment.
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Once we have that, the opportunities for us are endless.
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We could do all kinds of amazing things, and so whenever I see conflict or breakdowns or tension, I step back and look at where can I get shared commitment with someone?
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And in this world right now that's so divisive and so divided that shared commitment piece.
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If you can just start there and look for that, you're already off to a good start to be able to get the best out of your team.
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Whatever your team looks like maybe it's your family, maybe it's your neighbor, maybe it's a team in your company- yeah, all right, kim.
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Well, that's a big challenge that you're issuing to all of us here in today's episode.
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Find that shared commitment.
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Walk us down that path.
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I know that you're issuing to all of us here in today's episode.
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Find that shared commitment.
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Walk us down that path.
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I know that you ask great questions for a living and you really extract a lot of good stuff from people.
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What the heck is a shared commitment?
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How do we build that within our teams?
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Yeah, so think about it.
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Bear with me for just a second.
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So think about the last time you were in a disagreement with someone.
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Maybe it's a partner, a family member, a child.
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One of the easiest analogies is you have a teenager.
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They're not cleaning their room, they're playing video games.
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So the framework that I like to use so remember I'm a nerd, so I'm engineering the framework I like to use is there's some result, like this tension and this issue you're having.
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There's some result you don't like.
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So say, for example, you're a teenager, they're in the room playing video games for hours on end.
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You don't like that result.
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Well, results are the outcome of action, and so most of us will then go talk about the action.
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Kid, get off your video games.
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I'm going to unplug the screen, I'm going to unplug the game.
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But action is the outcome of commitment.
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So every action you do is the outcome of a commitment, including inaction, which is also an action.
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So you got dressed today, brian, you put those clothes on.
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You're committed to something.
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And so if we back up beyond action to asking the questions around what's driving this, not in a snarky why do you play video games all day?
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But in a truly what are you committed to?
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What's going on for you here?
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Now you're in that commitment space and so by conversing you can actually get to shared commitment.
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You might have to dig a while, you might have to peel the onion, but you can get to shared commitment.
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And in the workplace, whether you're you know, assuming you're an entrepreneur with a few employees or you're working with your clients or you're in a big company, whenever you have conflict on teams there's systemic conflict all the time.
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Maybe somebody is motivated by cost and someone else is motivated by quality.
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So you got to find that shared commitment, and usually it's we want the company to do well.
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But you got to find that shared commitment, and usually it's we want the company to do well, but you got to peel the onion further from that of like, what is it that you really want?
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And a good leader will sit there and ask those questions to find that shared commitment and then build up from there.
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Yeah, kim, I love hearing you talk about this stuff.
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It makes me think about a question.
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I'm sorry this is not as fleshed out as my typical questions, but I trust you to make sense of it because hearing you talk about this, obviously leadership happens in the conversations, it happens in the questions that we ask.
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It, of course, happens in listening.
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We need to understand the people that we're engaging with.
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So my question to you just because I'm someone who loves action and if you tell me to do something, I'll go do it, kim and so, with that in mind, really here's the question is where does leadership happen?
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Does it happen in weekly check-ins?
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Does it happen in every single email we send?
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Obviously, it happens all over the place, but how would you answer that question?
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Where does leadership happen?
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leadership happen.
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Well, I think you answered it.
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It happens everywhere and a astute leader will realize that and will realize that every opportunity that they're, you know, kind of like you're on air but signed bus hot behind you, every time they're on air, whether that's through chat, email, one-on-ones, group setting, group meetings, business, business development, networking events, any sort of team meeting they're on air.
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That's where leadership happens.
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But the beauty of leadership is it's not a title.
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Anybody can be a leader.
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Anyone, from any seat, can show leadership tendencies.
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And if you start, I call it putting on you know, I call it putting on.
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In my practice I call it putting on leadership glasses where you put those glasses on and you look for shared commitment, you look for what are the missing conversations that aren't happening, that need to be, and you start asking those questions is this the problem we should be solving?
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Or one of my favorite questions is what problem are we trying to solve?
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And people will look at you like, of course we know what problem we're trying to solve, and then they'll argue about what problem we're trying to solve.
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So clearly we didn't know.
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So that I love the question you're asking, brian, because I would love to see, particularly for rising folks, or even solo entrepreneurs or new entrepreneurs.
00:18:09.407 --> 00:18:14.506
Anybody can be a leader from anywhere, at any time.
00:18:15.816 --> 00:18:16.861
Yeah, I love that.
00:18:16.861 --> 00:18:17.957
I really.
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It strikes me as a podcaster, obviously, that on-air sign.
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That's what puts me in the mood In the morning on recording days.
00:18:24.442 --> 00:18:32.442
When I flip that sign on, it's a reminder for me of that's the mode that I'm in and I need to give my best self in every single conversation.
00:18:32.442 --> 00:18:39.804
However, kim, I will say the downside of the on air sign is it also is a reminder that I'm being recorded today.
00:18:39.804 --> 00:18:46.067
Every single thing that I say is happening behind a microphone is going to and is going to go out to listeners in over 150 countries.
00:18:46.067 --> 00:19:02.061
Everyone's going to hear us right now, which, of course, reminds us about the fact that we're fallible, and I think that when it comes to leadership, we forget about that fallibility and we forget about how we manage that within ourselves and we want to put this picture perfect self on for other people around us.
00:19:02.061 --> 00:19:04.207
Talk to us about the fallible leader.
00:19:05.875 --> 00:19:06.798
Oh, I love this.
00:19:06.798 --> 00:19:10.688
Three things come to mind, so I'm going to hopefully remember all three.
00:19:10.688 --> 00:19:15.463
The first one is humility At the core of us.
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We all know that we make mistakes, as a leader or as a person standing up and apologizing.
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The number of times like my last role in corporate America.
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:32.577
I managed a R&D or research and development manufacturing facility during the pandemic.
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It was insane and sleepless nights, crazy meetings, it was insane.
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And then I would have to come back and say I apologize.
00:19:41.746 --> 00:19:43.375
I was really snarky in that email.
00:19:43.375 --> 00:19:44.137
I apologize.
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I didn't get back to you.
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I apologize Like I'm doing the best I can.
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There's no handbook on managing a manufacturing facility in a pandemic, turns out.
00:19:53.203 --> 00:20:01.305
So I think humility is one where we, just people, will give you grace if you apologize.
00:20:01.305 --> 00:20:07.545
When you dig in and deny, deny, deny, that's when your credibility and your authenticity goes out the window.
00:20:07.545 --> 00:20:14.022
So just one being humble and admitting hey, I didn't show up at my Two.
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I have found and I coach my clients.
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When you are in a leadership position and I think all entrepreneurs fall into this you have to take care of yourself.
00:20:24.621 --> 00:20:28.094
There's, there's a book like it's called.
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It's called the corporate athlete.
00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:41.375
There's like consulting companies that will sell you all sorts of things, but recognizing that they're the food that you eat, the liquids that you drink, the sleep that you get, mindfulness, exercise.
