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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I'll tell you what.
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Having been an entrepreneur for more than 17 years now, I've seen that there's this one little precarious phase of business, that a lot of businesses fall into this trap and they don't know where to turn, who to turn to or how to get out.
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And what I love about today's guest is that from the second we landed on her website, she has this really cool chart that shows the startup journey and the four phases, from ideation to expansion.
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And those four phases are ideation, when you have that idea.
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The second is startup, the third is scale up and the fourth is expansion.
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And today's guest really hones in on those middle two phases of getting you through the startup and the scale-up phases.
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And she does it in such an incredible way because she has got a wealth of experience in and out of business.
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I'm so excited to introduce you to her.
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Her name is Christy Broom.
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Christy is a dynamic executive leader with over 25 years of experience driving strategic innovation and operational excellence across diverse industries, in both the for-profit world and the nonprofit sectors.
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She has a proven track record of designing and executing transformative strategies in innovative product and skill solutions, resulting in significant quality improvements, cost reductions and enhanced productivity.
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She is known for building client trust, fostering stakeholder relationships and spearheading initiatives that drive and scale organizational growth and success.
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She's a proud generalist, so we're definitely going to talk about that in today's conversation, because her career spans product, client experience, operations, technology innovation and all facets of leadership, learning and development.
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About 10 years ago, she was overstressed, overworked, overweight and, frankly, burned out, something that probably too many of us can relate to in our own entrepreneurial and professional journeys.
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That's when she discovered dance and yoga as a way to correct all of that.
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So five years ago, she started teaching yoga in both public and corporate settings and has added dance fitness to her offerings.
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She believes that we need to integrate our full selves in order to be our very best selves, and that's going to give us so many incredible things to talk about today, so I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Christy Broom.
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All right, christy, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first, welcome to the show.
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Thanks, brian, I'm excited to be here as well.
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Heck, yes, I'm excited for all the different ways that our conversation is probably going to take us today.
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But before we go there, take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Christy?
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Oh, my goodness, I started doing these things because I went to school for history and when I graduated I knew I didn't want to be a teacher.
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I didn't want to go to grad school and I had to figure out what was next, and so I opened up the newspaper.
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I am that old.
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I opened up the newspaper, found a job as an administrative assistant and it wasn't the job as much as it was.
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I found an amazing mentor, boss, and she really she's still one of my friends today, but she helped me understand what I was good at and she pushed me to grow.
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And when she left that organization I followed her and that really started my career.
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And again I have built my career around what does the organization need from me and where can I best both demonstrate and build my skills to contribute most effectively for the organization?
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And so all of the things that you read which is amazing all are a result of that.
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I didn't know what to do.
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I found a great boss, a great mentor, and from there I have had an amazing career journey and I can't wait for what is next.
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Yes, I love that overview, christy, because I'll be honest with you.
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What really stands out?
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Obviously, I talk to entrepreneurs and business leaders for a living.
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What really stands out to me about the way that you articulate that is the way you talk about an organization as most people talk about oh well, I took a job, I had this position.
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You're talking about figuring out where you can plug into an organization.
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It almost sounds like you view it as a living, breathing thing.
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Talk to me about that view of it, because it just seems like with your perspective, is that you can analyze it from a much more strategic standpoint.
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Absolutely so.
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I am a systems thinker, I look at the whole, I look at what needs to be done and how do we fix the problem, get to the end stage, get to where we want to be.
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And so, yes, organizations are a living breathing organism, as our startups, right?
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So I think one of the things that intrigued me about becoming an entrepreneur is the ability to shape that journey all on my own, to move and, you know, and groove with that, with my own organization driving what needs to be done.
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So, yeah, I think I think you know, rather than considering myself a job title, I have considered where are my strengths and how do I put those strengths to work while I continue to build others.
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And so, yes, the organization is living, breathing.
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I am living breathing, and the results that we achieve are as well.
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Yes, Christy, I'll tell you what.
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Speaking of moving and grooving, obviously what I love I teased it at the very top of today's episode is the startup journey.
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Journey, because all businesses are constantly moving and grooving, they're constantly changing and a lot of times we probably don't realize very intentionally the phases of our journeys.
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Talk to us about that.
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I know that for so many of us, when we start our first businesses, we are just we're doers, we are idea factories, we are all of the above.
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We just want to do everything and try everything.
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But I think it's so smart to look at and understand here are your different needs at different times.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I'm not an ideator, I'm not a visionary.
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I can be, I can demonstrate those skills, but that's not where I sit best.
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And so I sit best with others who have those ideas because, again, I'm a systems thinker.
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I can look at those ideas and say, okay, so how are we going to get there?
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So ideation is not my sweet spot.
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That is where all startups start and as an entrepreneur, again, I'm demonstrating those skills.
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It's not my sweet spot, but I'm demonstrating those skills in having ideas.
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But then, once you get past that idea, idea validation stage and you're in a startup, right, you've got a product, you've got a service, you've got a company, you're getting customers, you're making money out of it.
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Right, that's the startup phase.
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And typically at that phase companies are pretty small.
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Right, it might be a single individual, it might be some co-founders, maybe there's an employee or two, and it's the pivot from that to scale up, where I really excel, because my skills, my whole career has been about people in growth, even the yoga, even the dance, people in growth.
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Those are the themes.
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And so when companies are ready to move from kind of that founder team or that early really small team, really small company into becoming a scaled up organization.
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There's a lot of different things that they need, right, so they need to be able to interact with people in different ways, whether those people are customers or, eventually, employees or themselves as leaders.
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Right, because when we're starting our own company and we're doers, we're doing everything ourselves, we're executing, we're exhibiting different skills than when we are leading people and we need to do things like delegate and coach and manage and share that vision, all those great things that we have in our heads as founders.
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We have to inspire other people to come along with us on that journey, and so there's a lot of different skills and growth that needs to happen between that startup and scale up space.
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And then, finally, once companies are growing and you know they're, they're booming and they're excelling, that is an amazing space to be, but that's not my sweet spot either.
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I really enjoy helping companies when they're making that pivot from I'm a small company with an idea that's taking off to I want to grow this company.
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I want to scale it so that it can become that mega money-making machine that we all want to achieve.
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Yeah, christy, hearing you talk about these things, a lot of listeners are probably in their own heads thinking about their own businesses.
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Of course, I always say that people listen to podcast episodes, not for you or I, christy, but of course they're listening through their own lens and for their own business and they're probably thinking how do you define and identify which phase of business?
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And, christy, I'll transparently share here on the air is obviously, I've seen behind the scenes of a lot of businesses my guests, my friends, my own personal businesses and I've seen multiple seven figure businesses that still act like startups.
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They still have those symptoms.
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They don't really have those operations and those processes.
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They're making revenue because they've got a really great product.
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But basically, what I'm leading to is this isn't necessarily defined by dollar amount, is it?
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If not, how do you define these phases?
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No, for me it's really about that stage of the business, right, so it is the organization, it's the structure of the organization and it's their needs.
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And you're right, there are a lot of big companies that have a lot of startup practices within them, right, so, a lot of big companies that have a lot of startup practices within them, right?
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So a lot of organizations talk about we're agile, right, we're flexible, we're nimble whatever word they use for that and that's amazing.
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But if you have 5,000 people in your organization, you're no longer a startup, right, because you have to have structures in place.
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You have to have systems in place to be able to organize and manage and lead those people to be able to drive your company.
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So for me, it's really about those structures and those systems and those needs.
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And employee size is probably the best indicator of moving through the stages, at least as I define them, for the services that I can offer to organizations.
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So, again, startup is founding, team, maybe, maybe a few more, but once you get into managing people and especially multiple layers right, so, executive level, middle management layer and employees, that's definitely not a startup in the way that I define it anymore, because the needs, the needs are different.
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We have to hire, we have to fire, we have to coach, we have to manage performance, we have to build skills, we have to, you know, do things like quarterly business reviews.
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We have to do more formal planning.
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We have to be more diligent with our spending right and we have to inspire and motivate people to do their best work.
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That's where that's helping organizations get to that stage is my sweet spot and my passion, as I'm working with startups.
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Yeah, one of the things we've seen in the news, christy, is that historically we've seen a lot of companies try to hire their way into growth, and obviously we've seen mass layoffs over the past couple decades in different industries at various times, and so I would imagine that a lot of your work is helping companies to identify when is the right time to hire.
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What are those hires?
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How do we ensure that those hires actually have tangible growth in value to the organization?
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How the heck do you even begin to navigate those questions?
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Oh, brian, I'm so glad we're going here.
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So, hiring, identifying skills that you need, identifying the right people that you need right, because people and skills are different than people and their personalities and their characteristics and their behaviors right.
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And so identifying all of those things is the first step.
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The reason I'm glad you're going here is because I think the world of work and I think the employment equation is changing.
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And so you know, when I built my company and I promote my services, I'm promoting myself as a fractional.
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What does that mean?
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That mean?
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So a fractional is an embedded executive, embedded leader within the team that is not a full-time employee but can make decisions and do work as if we are, and so has the authority, has the motivation, the inspiration, all of the accountability that a full-time hire would, without the cost for the organization.
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And because it doesn't come with a cost, it also means that I can be super efficient in how I execute across those objectives.
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And the reason is we all know that when we are full-time employees within the organization, there's a lot of time spent on things that aren't necessarily driving the objectives, things like team check-in meetings, things like group conversations that should have been an email, right.
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So those things when you are not a full-time employee, those things are not obligatory, right, and so that leaves a lot of time to really drive the business forward.
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And so what I think is happening is, I think employment will look different five to 10 years from now.
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Some experts are predicting by 2030, some are predicting a little bit longer than that, at least from a leadership rank.
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I think we're going to also see a lot more gig work at the individual contributor level, so contract employees, you know, and short-term assignments, and so we start to think about all of those systems and structures that will need to look different, because we don't have, you know, we don't have performance cycles that we need to manage, and that's a time saver, but it also means we have to be able to assess and manage performance differently.
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And so finding the right people is part of what we'll need to think about, but also finding the right employment situation whether that be full-time contract, fractional gig, whatever that looks like I think is going to be another component that startups, in particular, are going to have to think about.
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I think you know well, run legacy companies that have always actually, they've always had this mix, to be honest, but they will probably keep that mix right and they will probably need to keep more full-time roles than startups, who I think have this opportunity to look at talent and talent management differently as they think about the needs of their business, and when we do that, we can reduce the need for things like mass layoffs.
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So I think there's a reframing that will take place over the next half decade to decade and I think that's going to be an overall net positive as we think about employment and employability.
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Yeah, christy, hearing you talk about the future of work, it's naturally leading me to somewhere that I've been so excited to go with you in today's conversation, and that is the position of the generalist, because I am very much in this boat with you where I feel like, because I are more on the side of being a generalist, it makes me a better marketer because I also love operations, and it makes me a better operationalist because I love marketing, and so I don't fit into any one of these boxes.
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And when I think about some of the greatest tech CEOs and founders that I've had the chance to meet and to interview, it seems to me like they're not the traditional tech founders of yesterday, that they actually do like people, they actually do have personalities and they have personable skills and they can communicate in addition to their tech skills.
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And so I feel like we're at this really weird juxtaposition in history where people are telling you know, we've got that phrase the riches are in the niches, but then we also see so many generalists like you, christy, that bring such a value because of the fact that you're a generalist and you have such a broad array of perspectives and experiences and skills and talents.
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What's your take on that, because a lot of people are told conflicting things, so I'm so curious to hear it from you.
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Yeah, I think the world isn't quite ready for generalists and I want to change that as well.
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I hope shorter than five years.
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There's a great movement led by a woman named Millie Tamati.
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She started Generalist World, which is a community of people like you and me, brian, who identify as generalists, who really have this rich background that don't fit into a box, this rich background that don't fit into a box.
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The reason I say the world is not ready for it, I think it's a system change, right.
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And so, if you think about the rise of technology and HR technology and specifically applicant tracking systems ATSs right.
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So those systems that automatically screen resumes and applications to make matches, to make it easier on hiring managers to find the right candidate.
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I've hired people many, many times.
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I've hired people in the last year, year and a half.
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Applicant tracking systems are good, but they're not great.
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I think you know I like to find the person who will fit within my team, who brings the right skill sets, and applicant tracking systems don't do a great job of recognizing that.
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To find the person who will fit within my team, who brings the right skill sets, and applicant tracking systems don't do a great job of recognizing that.
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When we think about generalists, applicant tracking systems have a hard time right.
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So if I am hiring for a specific job role, let's call it product manager.
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An applicant tracking system will look for those words and it'll look for a history within the resume that says product manager, and it's really hard for an applicant tracking system to screen through and say, well, you know what?
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They weren't a product manager, but they were a project manager, or they were a volunteer at an organization and they did fundraising for a year, or they were a leader of a team, and that's an important skill as we think about being able to lead a full scrum team and develop a product and bring it to market.
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And so I think it's the systems that are going to need to evolve a little bit, in addition to us getting really really good and really really precise at what we're looking for from a skill set perspective as well.
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I think one of the things and, brian, I anticipate this is true for you as well One of the things that I think is a strength in my career is that I have shifted where the need has been.
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I think is a strength in my career is that I have shifted where the need has been, and so if you look at my LinkedIn profile or my resume, there isn't a consistent job title among that.
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There are some common threads, but they aren't in the job titles, and so a system that is screening that won't see that.
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The strength is that I am moving where the organization needs me and that adaptability that I have demonstrated throughout my career, and so that's a long way of saying I'm hopeful for the future of generalists.
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I think more organizations are starting to realize, and will continue to realize, the value that we bring and, as it relates to the Startup to Scale Up journey, that generalist is really valuable because you don't necessarily need a single person in a single function with a single title.
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You need someone to fix a problem and then fix the next problem, and then fix the next problem and then fix the next problem, and generalists really are ideally suited for that situation.
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Yeah, christy, I'll tell you what most listeners can't see you and I right now.
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But my favorite part of that answer that you just shared with us is when you're talking about those shifts and those turns, that adaptability.
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You're using your hand and you're showing those turns and I think about.
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I've actually never attributed adaptability as one of my core traits.
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That's like, for sure, one of the strengths that I've amassed over 17 plus years of being an entrepreneur, and I guess I've missed out on the attribution of that adaptability to being a generalist, because it's kind of the opposite of that point that when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, is that?
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as generalists, we can assess things and say, oh, this is calling for my operational hat right now, this is calling for my marketer hat right now, and it is so easy for us to switch those gears.
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It makes me want to ask you this question.
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I kind of let it slide by a little earlier in our conversation, but when we talk about business phases, obviously so much of what we ideate is in one direction, it's with one strategy, but of course, when we reach that startup phase, it's very different from how it was.
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In our direction, it's with one strategy, but of course, when we reach that startup phase, it's very different from how it was in our heads.
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And even further, when we go to the scale up phase, things look even more different.
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And so, christy, I guess I want to talk to your strategic mind a little bit.
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And from an operational and organizational standpoint, how do we navigate those changes?
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Because I'll tell you, as the host of this show, when listeners email me and they're convinced you know this is the business I want to do for the next five to 10 years I think to myself transparently, christy, is that there's a very small chance you're going to be doing that business five years from now, probably six months from now, it's going to change drastically.
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How do you navigate those changes, especially when you start tacking on employees, when you start tacking on operational foundations and structures?
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How do you navigate those changes and stay just as adaptable as we generalists are?
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So there's a there's probably a quick answer and then there's a longer answer as well.
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I think team dynamics is the quick answer, right.
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So hire for the people who are willing to make those changes with you and able to make those changes with you.
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How do you do that?
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You know?
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Again, looking at a generalist resume is one way right.
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So probing into how are people shifting through those career changes.
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But I think a lot of conversation around tell me about something that did not work well.
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How did you handle it Right?
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And being attached to an idea is probably a signal that that person is not going to be able to navigate those changes well, especially in the earlier changes or the earlier stages.
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Rather, when, brian, you said it right, like the idea I started with is not going to be the idea I end with, and we all know that from experience.
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But when you're said it right, like the idea I started with is not going to be the idea I end with, and we all know that from experience.
00:22:16.635 --> 00:22:25.122
But when you're in it and you're very attached to that idea and you want it to succeed, if you can't make that change, you're going to struggle.
00:22:25.122 --> 00:22:29.159
If the people on your team can't make that change, you're going to struggle.
00:22:29.159 --> 00:22:34.871
So, I think, a lot of probing into what does failure look like and how did you handle that?
00:22:34.871 --> 00:22:37.157
What was your next step after it?
00:22:37.157 --> 00:22:52.259
Those are the types of questions to ask people that you're bringing into your team, because at that stage, until you're at scale up, the company may look different two, three, four times over and you may make massive swings.
00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:55.464
They may not be massive, but you may make massive swings.
00:22:55.464 --> 00:22:58.434
So that's probably the easier answer.
00:22:58.434 --> 00:23:07.277
I think in the moment it is about detaching from the idea and that's that again is a lot of kind of wisdom and experience.
00:23:07.277 --> 00:23:19.184
But you can probe it out in employees who maybe don't have as many years under their career belt as I have and maybe you have Brian as well.
00:23:19.631 --> 00:23:27.124
So, understanding what did it look like when their athletic team did not achieve the results?
00:23:27.124 --> 00:23:33.701
What did it look like in their education when they had a particular interest in that shift?
00:23:33.701 --> 00:23:40.181
I've been speaking to a lot of college students lately and I love speaking to early college students.
00:23:40.181 --> 00:23:42.817
I have three adult kids of my own.
00:23:42.817 --> 00:23:51.482
My youngest is still in college and he's still with his original major in his second year, which I'm not convinced he's going to graduate with that one, but maybe he will.
00:23:51.482 --> 00:23:52.730
The other two did not.
00:23:52.730 --> 00:23:54.592
The other two went in with an idea.
00:23:54.592 --> 00:23:56.814
I myself went in with workplace.
00:23:56.814 --> 00:24:14.611
That's an opportunity to probe right.
00:24:14.611 --> 00:24:17.637
What did you start your education career with?
00:24:17.637 --> 00:24:19.931
If you went to college, what was your first major?
00:24:19.931 --> 00:24:21.234
Did you graduate with that?
00:24:21.234 --> 00:24:22.397
And if they did, that's great.
00:24:22.397 --> 00:24:23.902
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:24:23.902 --> 00:24:25.853
I think a lot of people don't.
00:24:25.853 --> 00:24:31.673
And so how did they handle that shift from an area of study to another one as well?
00:24:32.414 --> 00:24:34.380
Yes, christy, I love that answer.
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:44.730
That's such a cool insight because you're right, the older I get I'm in my mid-30s now, but, like I said in entrepreneurial years, I've got 17 years under my belt and the biggest use the word wisdom.
00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:51.625
To me, there's a lot of smart people, but I think that wisdom really is about that detachment that you talked to us about.
00:24:51.625 --> 00:24:56.123
The older I get, the more I honestly convince myself less and less, christy, that I know anything at all.
00:24:56.123 --> 00:24:58.291
Where I'm just like, I'm open to being wrong.
00:24:58.291 --> 00:25:02.732
Let's try things, let's see what the actual results come back, as that, to me, is true wisdom.
00:25:02.732 --> 00:25:04.320
So I love the fact that you called that out.
00:25:04.722 --> 00:25:14.684
I want to switch gears a little bit, because I knew that time would be flying by with you here today, because we could both geek out about all things business, operations, technology, growth scale, all of those.
00:25:14.684 --> 00:25:25.396
But I also know that, as a generalist, yoga is such an important part of the way that you see the world and the way that you have transformed, and part of your value add and the way that you think as well.
00:25:25.396 --> 00:25:30.459
That's what I always love about any of these passions is that they're all just a microcosm for life.
00:25:30.459 --> 00:25:34.571
They're all a microcosm for life.
00:25:34.571 --> 00:25:35.413
They're all a microcosm for business.
00:25:35.413 --> 00:25:36.134
We can learn so much through them.
00:25:36.134 --> 00:25:40.423
So, christy, with that entrepreneurial hat on, how has yoga changed the way that you see the world and how has it played into the way that you think?
00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:44.049
It's such a great segue actually, from detachment, right.
00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:51.109
So here in the Western world, yoga is a fit, yes, it's fitness, right.
00:25:51.109 --> 00:26:06.589
So whether it is true fitness and I teach a class that is very much fitness yoga we sweat a lot, we move a lot, but typically we think of yoga as slower and gentler and more stretchy.
00:26:06.589 --> 00:26:11.278
You know, relaxation, focused, and I teach that type of yoga as well.
00:26:11.278 --> 00:26:23.920
Focused, and I teach that type of yoga as well In the East, where yoga originated, yoga is a way of life and so when you study, kind of those foundations of yoga, it's about detachment.
00:26:23.984 --> 00:26:47.671
If you've ever taken a yoga class, whether it's in the West or not, typically we start, we definitely end, with Shavasana, with letting go, and you might hear some yoga instructors talk about that being the most difficult part of the class, and it's because it's very hard to sit or lie in stillness and let go of the wiggles that we want to do in our bodies.
00:26:47.671 --> 00:26:52.316
More importantly, let go of the thoughts that are in our heads right.
00:26:52.316 --> 00:26:56.607
Importantly, let go of the thoughts that are in our heads right.
00:26:56.607 --> 00:26:58.772
And so that moment in yoga where you're detaching, you're detaching from all of that.
00:26:58.772 --> 00:27:01.057
You're saying I can't control it all.
00:27:01.057 --> 00:27:08.178
I may still have thoughts, but I'm not going to let them attach in my mind, right.
00:27:08.178 --> 00:27:20.916
So I may be thinking about the grocery list, I may be thinking about what I need to do today, I may be thinking about you know how my leg hurts, but I'm not going to let those thoughts take hold, I'm going to let them move on by and try to detach from them.
00:27:21.038 --> 00:27:47.257
That practice of detachment in yoga, I think, is so valuable and it has such strong connections to what we're doing in life, but in business as well, and it's why I have this belief that yoga, wellness, mental fitness they have such an important role to play in the workplace and I love that organizations are starting to realize the value of wellness in their organizations.
00:27:47.257 --> 00:28:10.990
Because those skills, those capabilities to detach to, you know, to take control of my thoughts and decide how I'm going to acknowledge them or not, how much space they're going to get in my brain, in my energy, in my being, that is a valuable skill that can be applied in all areas of business, definitely in entrepreneurship, right?
00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:26.361
Definitely, as we think about the need to detach from an idea, to detach from the outcomes, to detach from all of the no's that we're going to hear and not take those personally and keep moving on, keep persevering.
00:28:26.361 --> 00:28:28.928
That is such an important component of it.
00:28:29.648 --> 00:28:31.353
Yes, I love that, Christy.
00:28:31.353 --> 00:28:45.906
What I really appreciate about that answer is you openly acknowledge, you say, yeah, you are thinking about your grocery shopping list, you are thinking about the 5 million things that we all are responsible for as entrepreneurs, but we don't let them attach in our mind.
00:28:45.906 --> 00:28:50.678
And I love that concept, and it's the way that meditation was explained to me as well.
00:28:50.678 --> 00:28:56.713
I remember once upon a time I told a meditation teacher I said there's no way I can meditate, I'm always thinking.
00:28:56.713 --> 00:29:03.645
And they said, yeah, meditation is about acknowledging those thoughts, recognizing those thoughts and let them pass right on by.
00:29:03.645 --> 00:29:12.653
And it's so similar to the way that you introduced us to that concept here today, christy, and I so deeply appreciate that because I know how much it struck me the first time that I heard it, and again here today.
00:29:12.712 --> 00:29:25.722
So, listeners, I hope that you're heeding this stuff, this wisdom from Christy here today, although I will say, christy, all of that wisdom from you, I don't know how you're going to top it for this final question, because I always ask at the end of every episode what's that?
00:29:25.722 --> 00:29:33.137
One piece of advice, knowing that we're being listened to by both entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages of their own growth journeys.
00:29:33.137 --> 00:29:36.269
What's that one piece of advice that you want to leave them with today?
