869: GROWTH IS AT YOUR FINGERTIPS (and how to "dream out loud" to change the world) w/ Ron Hadley

0:00 Hey, what is up? Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast. As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I'll tell you all right here up front in today's episode. I am a big believer that the world is a better place when there are more people, more good people doing good business, and today's guest really is at the core of amplifying that, with huge ripple effects in all the work that he does and all the work that he's been doing for a long time. This is an entrepreneur who, the more I looked into his work, I was like this is someone who not only shares our mission, but someone who is so committed to improving the world through work and through business and through values and being of service to others.

0:42 So let me tell you all about today's guest. His name is Ron Hadley. Ron is the founder and CEO of when Are you Going, the Company. Ron's career spans 25 years, all 50 states and six continents. That is crazy, as he is focused on growing the impacts of innovative, forward-looking nonprofits and social impact leaders. He has partnered on growth initiatives with recognized national and global brands such as Big Brothers, big Sisters, save the Children, rise Against Hunger, strive Together, the Children's Defense Fund, united Way and many more, all to achieve impactful visions that they've dreamt out loud. Ron grew up and began his career in the shadow of Chicago. We both share our dislike for cold weather.

1:25 He now resides in Dallas, texas. He travels frequently as the work, impact and teams of where are you going in company stretches globally. I'm super excited about today's conversation. We're going to learn a lot from Ron, not only through the wisdom and the strategies and the perspectives that he shares with us, but also through the example that he sets as an entrepreneur, as a business owner and, I think, most importantly, as a leader in life and in business. I'm not going to say anything else. Let's dive straight into my interview with Ron Hadley. All right, ron, I'm so excited that you're here with us today. You've got big shoes to fill today. But first things first, welcome to the show. Thank you, brian, I've been looking forward to it and wow, thank you for that introduction.

2:10 Heck, yeah, it's easy. Honestly, ahead of these sessions, I do a lot of research on the entrepreneurs that we're introducing our audience to, and you have such an extensive body of positive work, work that actually positively impacts the world and society and communities, which means I'm excited for you to take us beyond the bio. Who the heck is Ron? How'd you start doing all these cool, impactful things that you do? Appreciate that question and very much count myself blessed for the path I've been able to live, the work I've been able to be a part of, the teams that I've been able to partner with, work I've been able to be a part of the teams that I've been able to partner with, and just the impact in other people's lives that my career has been able to contribute to.

2:51 It's been a very meaningful journey and when you ask about going beyond the bio, wow, I certainly have to go back to my upbringing, because the roots would be set in my parents' example. They live a life, then and now, a life of generosity, hard focused work, ethic, the belief that there's always a path forward, there's always a solution to be found, that there's always a path forward, there's always a solution to be found. My parents are my heroes. They really set my life on its course and then you know, like any of us, all of us there's a lot of factors that have gone into who I am and what makes up Ron Hadley and what propelled my life on the course that it is.

3:53 Adding to the example that my parents set, I would go to my formal education Post high school. I pursued degrees in business and in economics and that whole business world was a real attraction to me at that young college age and you know it helped me develop skills in communication and problem solving and analytical thinking and leadership and really helping me to the education that I got, I believe, helped me to take those theories and apply them to the real world and a strong foundation was solidified all the more through my formal education.

4:33 And then, of course, I think the third and final component that I would mention in response to your question of, beyond the bio, who am I and how did I pursue the life path and course that I have would just be the experience that I've been able to be a part of in my career. I was fortunate early on. My very first job and career experience was at my alma mater in student development and youth development education, and that first experience really allowed me the opportunity to, even more so, discover my passion, what drives me, and it was that whole opportunity to invest in the lives of other people at real pivotal times in their life when they're looking for that next opportunity, that next evolution of their life, you know, getting from their now to their next.

5:38 In my very first career role in higher education, I began to discover that more and more about myself being able to apply my upbringing, being able to apply my formal training and education into my career. And from that first career opportunity it really launched me into the work in nonprofits. Nonprofits and for me as an executive, as a leader in nonprofit work, it's that perfect merging of my core being, of my passion, of my business acumen, while contributing to other people for a greater good. I oftentimes say all of our journeys are different, right, and we're all motivated and driven by different things.

6:23 But for me, I've oftentimes said I don't have any interest in helping to line somebody else's pocket for profit right, but I really am driven to do more good and when I can help other people do more good, then it's just exponentially a greater impact. So you know, my journey has unfolded the way it has. I've had careers in nonprofit work for the past 20 years and about five years ago I launched out. I just I felt the time was right for me that if I wanted to do more and have a little more control, or a lot more control over how that was done and where it was done and with whom it's done with, I wanted to go out on my own and I lived that life, as your podcast is called from a wantrepreneur to an entrepreneur.

7:20 Yeah, I love that overview for so many reasons, ron, first and foremost of which is it shows how much you've been guided by your values, and you started that answer even with your upbringing. Shout out to your parents, and I so deeply respect and appreciate that, because family is a core part of who I am and my life journey not just my business journey is guided by those things that I've picked up through childhood and I'm so fortunate into adulthood to have such a strong impact. The other thing that really stands out to me, ron, is you talk about not just doing these things conceptually, not just talking about good business and social impact, but putting it into practice, and that's why I love this phrase.

8:00 It came up so much when I was doing my research ahead of today's episode, which is how important dreaming out loud is to you, because it's one of my favorite quotes. It's by Edgar Allen Poe, where he said all men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night. What is it about dreaming out loud, ron? What is it that that becomes such a core part of your messaging and the types of companies and business leaders that you want to work with? Yeah. Oh, I love that question and I love that quote too. I'm going to have to borrow that from you, brian. That's a perfect question to start with, because I'll answer it in two ways.

8:42 Because I'll answer it in two ways. First, just in the most basic sense, I believe that a dream can only be realized or most likely would be realized if it is said out loud. That's what puts it in motion, that's what gets it out of our head and into the world. When we can speak it out loud, not only is there kind of almost a sense within ourselves that oh wow, now I've said it and now I have to do it, but it also brings other people in. Other people cannot be a part of our dream, cannot be a part of that next vision for greater whatever and in our case as a business, it's greater impact to serve other people.

9:29 That's what we really encourage people to dream about, and it could be their life development as well. But get that dream out there. You've got something in your head that you believe is possible. You've got something in your head that you think can make the world a better place. You've got something in your head that can make your life legacy what you want it to be. If it's in your head, it doesn't get into motion. And if it's in your head, nobody else can hear it or be a part of it or catch it. So dream out loud, get it out there, put it in motion and get other people engaged the other way I want to answer. That question, too is another reason why it's such a perfect question for you to start with and I appreciate that you picked that up from our website and much of our material is because when we do our work, what we're created to do as a company where are you going, the company?

10:22 When we do our work, we start with asking questions social impact leaders, social impact teams to dream out loud. That's what allows us, as a company, to help them realize that next level of impact. We want them to dream out loud what are you doing now and what do you envision doing next? Where do you want to go from here? We'll oftentimes tell companies too. If they don't know where they want to go, quite frankly, we're not the right company for them. Because that's a whole different skill set to help people create and try to figure out. Well, what do they want to do?

11:02 Who do they want to become. What do they want to impact? If they've got an idea, they want to help more people, they want to move into a new geography, they want to produce a new curriculum, they want to create a new program Just dreaming that out loud because of the impact it can make, then we know, as a company, how we can help them get from where they are to where they want to be. But we can't even do that if they can't dream out loud or they don't have a dream that they can express out loud. So it's pivotal Pivotal to create what's next and new and pivotal to our work to be able to help companies become what they want to become.

11:45 Yeah, I love that, ron. I think it speaks so much to what I think you are at such a powerful intersection of that social impact but also business. And my argument, if I could argue on behalf of entrepreneurs with society, is that all too often we try to separate business from impact and just societally certainly not in the conversation that you and I are having here today or what our listeners believe in, but I think it's right there in the very word of non-profit. We try to separate the business components that we all recognize profit with impact. But of course, when we tie the two together, when we do better business, we get to have more impact. It's something that I always tell new entrepreneurs. A lot of entrepreneurs their why is very much in the right reason.

12:27 They're doing this to make a positive impact and they're afraid to talk about money. They're afraid to talk about profit. And I tell them the contrary. I say, if you make a lot of money with this, you're going to get to serve a heck of a lot of people with this. And, ron, when you talk about sustainability, I love it that you talk about operations, organizations, teams, missions being sustainable, which also incorporates that business side of it. Talk to us about the intersection, the marriage of these two, because I think that they amplify each other. Agreed completely and I think what you're zeroing in on there is largely what it was a major component to me deciding to go out on my own because I had been a part of many nonprofits that were, you know, mid to large size and they were doing tremendous, growing work and impact in whatever sector that they were focused on helping kids, expanding education outcomes, working in the food insecurity hunger needs, working in the food insecurity hunger needs and they were operating and they were producing at scale.

13:40 And I was fortunate enough to be a part of those organizations and see what made them different and it really was what you just spoke to. They were run like a business, because you can't separate the two. If an organization, if a leader, if a team in social impact and nonprofit work wants to go to scale and they're doing good work and they know they're doing good work and they're changing it and impacting lives, my question early on is why not do more? If you know what you're doing works and you're impacting the world around us for good and you're helping to change lives, why not do more? And in order to do more, it requires that intersection with a business operation and a business mindset.

14:27 In my strong opinion and in my experience. So you've got to have those workflows, you've got to have strategic pillars and goals. You've got to have KPIs, you've got to have job descriptions with clear performance expectations. You've got to be hiring right. You've got to be paying well. Nonprofit is not a I'll share this with contract partners quite a bit too Nonprofit work is not a vow to poverty. You know that tends to be the priesthood that is a vow to poverty In nonprofits. You've got to run like a business, which means you've got to pay staff competitively as well. Well, there's so much in that intersection of operationalizing, of team alignment, of finding those business concepts that are integrated into your focus on doing more good work rather than making a profit for the company or for shareholders.

15:28 That's what distinguishes a nonprofit from a for-profit. Is that your focus, your ROI, primarily as an organization, is to do more good as opposed to producing a profit for your shareholders. And then, what sets apart the nonprofit? That might be a little more content and this isn't a bad thing, it's just a distinguishing marker the nonprofit that might be a little more content on the status quo they're doing good work and they're okay with what they're doing where they're doing it and just maintaining that consistent level of impact. That's okay, but what sets them apart from those that are scaling and going bigger and going to that next big thing is when you can integrate in the business model and concepts.

16:19 Yeah, I love hearing you say those things. It's something that I preach to so many newer entrepreneurs is that if you are an amazing physical therapist and you start your own business, I always tell these physical therapists you're no longer a practitioner, you now have an obligation to get good at business and marketing so that you can serve even more people. And Ron, you said it right there and I'm gonna pick on this we're definitely gonna come back to this topic of you called out run like a business. They have to operate like a business and I wanna understand actually, let's go there right now, because I already know I want to pick your brain in a different way. Moving forward, what does running like a business look like To you? Does that mean structurally? Does it mean the way that an organization thinks? Does it mean the types of questions that they ask?

17:00 I'd love to hear, because it's something full transparency. When I was 19, I started my first business. It was a soccer blog, and I was doing it because I'm a soccer fanatic and I loved writing about soccer. But when I started realizing that my reach was expanding, the question I asked myself from my dorm room was what would a real business do? And for me it was a media outlet. I was like what would a real media outlet, a soccer coverage business, how would they operate? And that question led me to a lot of answers. But, ron, you've got a heck of a lot more experience under your belt. What does running like a business look like? What does it mean? Great question and it's everything you just said. It is thinking like a business.

17:47 It is having strategic plan. It is operationalizing that strategic plan annually. That you've got annual benchmarks to get to where you're ultimately going. What is that multi-year vision, Three, five, 10 years down the road? To operate like a business, you've got to be thinking like a business and you've got to have those strategic plans, know where you're going. You've got to be able to operationalize that on an annual basis with benchmarks. You've got to be structured like a business. You need to have workflows and work streams, work teams that are focused on, and that's not always possible, quite frankly, in a nonprofit. Nonprofit executives and nonprofit staff oftentimes are wearing multiple hats.

18:28 That's just a reality. But to the best that you can move toward or even find ways now in your current structure if you're a nonprofit, to be distinguishing and more clearly defining roles and responsibilities that align vertically with workflow, that is so important. To minimize the number of different hats that a team member is wearing is a very first step if restructuring is needed to move forward and to really go to scale. But you need to be structured like a business. Operating like a business, you need to operate.

19:08 Operating like a business also means operations like a business. You need to have a budget every year. You need to have the technology commitment that you need for communications and for implementing whatever your work product is, whatever your service delivery is. You need to make sure that you're investing in the technology that you need. And the last item I would probably mention because this I want to say too often, and I think that's fair to say too often is missing also in nonprofits, and that is that performance expectation and accountability, clear responsibility on who is doing what and how is that measured?

19:59 You can't get to where you're going if you don't know how to measure it, If you don't know that you've made a step forward as opposed to a step back, or that you've made a step forward as opposed to a step in the wrong direction. You've got to be able to measure that back, or that you've made a step forward as opposed to a step in the wrong direction. You've got to be able to measure that and that type of clear job description that trickles into your annual performance plan, which then, of course, goes into the types of reviews or feedback or team support whatever it is to review and monitor that progress. That type of business approach is important too. So everything from thinking like to being structured, like to having operations, like to having a team workflow and accountability like a business is what that means.

20:51 Yes, I think that is such an incredible answer, ron, on a very in-depth topic. Obviously, you could talk about that for hours, but at the root of it is you have to be a business. That's so. Much of this conversation really comes back to that, and when I think about businesses and how they operate and how they think and coming back, one word that you keep using with us is strategy. They have to be intentional in their planning for the future. I can't help but think this, ron, is that part of your superpower must be asking the right questions, because your entire business name is a question when are you going? And I'm sure that questions are such a core part of what you do and the value that you deliver. I've always believed that the quality of the answers we're going to find in life and in business are limited by the quality of the questions.

21:35 I'd love to get inside of your mind and understand the types of questions that you ask to these huge leaders, because I'm going to toot your horn just a little bit, because I know you're very humble, ron, but you've got incredible testimonials on your business website from a Texas state senator, from some of the VPs and founders and CEOs of some massive global impact companies that we've all heard of. So, ron, what are the questions that are guiding the impactful work that you're doing with all these business leaders? Great question. So the first one is, uh, prompting them to dream out loud. It is the name of my company when are you going?

22:15 Um, and and part of the magic in that, brian, is that um, well, there's so much packed into those four words. First of all, um, but I'll zero in as I reply to your question. I'll zero in on the term you, because that is so important in asking the right questions is personalizing it to understand who I'm talking to. Yes, I've got a set of questions that I'm wanting to guide us toward in our conversation so that I can discover the right things to discover, but it's about listening to the other person and following their lead on how they're answering that.

22:59 So the very first question is where are you going? What are you dreaming about? Dream out loud. For me, and I want to hear that. So that's a primary question. At any level in an organization, whether it's the executive director, a state senator, staff members, at any level of the team, when I can ask a question to pull out their thoughts, to extract their feedback, to get their ideas, that really can set up a conversation for the right direction that I need to go. Yeah, another question that I'll oftentimes ask because, obviously, just because you know what your dream is, if they're looking to me and my company, where are you going to help them get there?

23:45 They don't have all of the answers between here and there. That's what they're talking to me about is how do we get there, ron, I need added capacity. I need best practices capacity, I need best practices. I need a focused approach to stay on track. That's what they're looking to us for. That's what we bring to the table when they contract with us. Is that strategic planning for sustainability. Sustainability is also very important. It's not just to grow for growth sake or to get somewhere that you can't sustain, but we want to help them grow strategically and sustainably. So let us hear where you want to go. We'll help you get there. And a question to help them get there is what is at your fingertips?

24:31 That is another key component to our work, because too often people can get even leaders especially when they dream real big, can get, you know a little reluctant on moving forward because it just seems so daunting. We want to pull into the conversation very quickly. Tell me about what you're doing now. What are you doing well? What is working? What types of what would you consider your assets well, what is working? What types of what would you consider your assets? Because if they can realize how what they have immediately in front of them can help them get to where they're going, there's going to be some gaps. If there aren't gaps on resource needs and best practice needs and staying focused, then they don't need us.

25:17 But if they can start with understanding what is at their fingertips and then we can help fill in the gaps okay, to get from where you are to where you want to be, and to get from what you have in front of you to what you need to get to where you're going, then we start filling in those gaps and it's those gaps that we can then work with our contract partners to figure out the best path to get to that ultimate new vision for greater impact. Two questions to answer your question that we really start with is where are you going to get them to be dreaming out loud, to understand what's important to them, get their feedback, their thoughts, their ideation?

25:58 And then the second question is we really want them to identify and help us understand what's at your fingertips. What do you have going well right now? That is part of getting you to where you're ultimately wanting to go. Yeah, I love how structured your answer is to that question because I think that it shows a lot of things. One, there's room for that flexibility you emphasize the you and where are you going and I think that's so important to cater that. But most importantly, I obviously know kind of the spoiler alert that for you, what is at your fingertips also alludes to a framework that your business actually helps others operate under. I want to talk about that because I think that the hard thing in life and in business is bridging that gap between where we are and where we want to go, and I'm a big believer in reverse engineering.

26:45 If I know where I want to go, it's just like putting an address into a GPS Well then we can reverse engineer. Okay, I got to take this highway and I need to go there and things may happen along the way. It may not be smooth sailing, but at least I kind of have a roadmap. But hearing you talk about this, what is at your fingertips it sounds like you also think of resources along the way, and I think that's an inevitable part of working within the nonprofit world is that there's limited resources and we all face that constraint in life and in business. Talk to us about more, about that fingertips. What is at your fingertips? What is it that you're looking for there, ron, and what is that approach and framework that you've all developed? Yeah, and obviously that's a multi-day, multi-week, multi-month process that we work through.

27:30 But to narrow it down to a two or three minute overview, there are five steps that we progress our partners through in order to attain that, that new vision for greater impact. To get to where they're going and it is embedded into the acronym of fingertips f-i-n-g-e-r-s-t-i-t-i-p-s fingertips and you start with the F, so real quick, the finish line. That's where we want to start and it goes right back to the question we asked where are you going? You start with the end in mind. You reverse engineer, brian, just like you just said.

28:11 The I is introspection and that basically represents your why. Now, on the introspection part, we ask why are you doing this? Make sure you're doing this for the right reasons, reasons that will sustain you throughout the process. This is really a motivating passion result that you're wanting. So start with the foundation being the finish line, and introspection Answer the question why. That next step is really the crux of our asset-based approach. That's when we ask what is at your fingertips, what is in your service delivery process, what's in your team structure, what's in your organization that is going to be needed and will help you get to where you're going.

29:00 Presumably there's quite a bit. You still need to add to that New resources, expanded staff, new best practices, new facilities. Fill in the blank. There's going to be plenty of gaps to fill. But that third N is your need and it's identified by starting with what are your assets? That's the question we're going to be asking and then it's going to identify what is needed. The next phase is the G and the E, and those are mindsets, growth and everyone. Basically, we want to align with whoever we're working with. That number one growth is possible. We're entering into this process with that basic parameter and kind of guardrails, if you will, that we are going to keep moving forward.

29:49 There is a path forward and we're going to find it together and we're going to get you there. We need that alignment on mindset of growth. G is growth, alignment on mindset of growth. G is growth, e is everyone, because we believe it's the most common ingredient to success is when you have a team, when you involve other people, and especially in nonprofits. You need stakeholders from outside of your company who believe in your cause to join you in that. So we want that mindset alignment of everyone. Just keep in mind we can always be tapping into people that share our passion and can be a part of this. The next four in that acronym of fingertips the R, the T, the I and the P is the basic process.

30:38 Now we're ready to get going on. How do we strategically plan? We've agreed on the foundation, which is your finish line and your introspection. We've identified your needs, which was prompted by the asset-based question. We've agreed on the mindset of growth and everyone, and then the process is the RTIP, which is R is for reality, which is our way of framing up essentially a SWOT analysis. Right, reality is let's identify now what environment you're operating in. The T is transparency. Transparency means now be honest with yourself.

31:19 Once you've identified reality, you've done your SWOT analysis. Now what does that mean for you? What kind of hurdles do you need to overcome? What kind of opportunities do you need to seize? What kind of threats do you need to be aware of and really apply that back to yourself? It's just part of that typical strategic planning process, but it's embedded in our at your fingertips acronym. The I is innovation. Basically, okay, you've acknowledged reality, you've been transparent with yourself about how that applies back to you. Now think outside the box. How do you overcome that in any obstacles or threats. How do you optimize and maximize your opportunities and your strength?

32:03 You know, be innovative because we're going someplace big, presumably we're going to a new vision of greater impact. So we need to think differently than what we did before. So it's the innovation. Part is the I and then the P is perspectives. It's really that process, it's that continuous improvement, right, just because you've gone through the strategic planning and you've got a plan now that addresses reality and applies it to your real organization's situation, and you've got a plan that will get you there. That includes innovation, new ways of thinking and expanding what you're doing. Always have a feedback loop, continuous improvement, and get those perspectives from your team members, from your stakeholders, and keep getting that feedback on what's working well, what needs to be tweaked.

32:56 But that's part of the process. And then the final letter and fingertips is your S and that's success. You do all of that. You're going to get from the F, which was your identified finish line, to your S, which is your success, which is your new vision realized. We'll oftentimes tell our partners you can start anywhere. I'm sorry, you can start where you are, but you can finish anywhere and that's that S is your success at finishing where you envisioned being. Start where you are and finish anywhere at your fingertips will get you there. Gosh, ron, I'll tell you what.

33:37 I know that I tossed you a very loaded question, but you just gave us an absolute masterclass in the fingertips model and the acronym that you've all developed. And I'm going to call listeners out, because at the center of so much of our conversation here today is acting like a business. And you see, in the way that Ron thinks, the way that he presents to us, the way that he helps these businesses and nonprofits and leaders operate, is that this is what it means to act like a business. It's this level of intentionality, it's this level of strategic thought and planning on where it is that you want to go and then filling in those gaps. And, ron, you've done it in such a succinct and clearly identified way that I've always loved that concept of success leaves clues.

34:18 Very few things in life happen by mistake. Even winning the lottery doesn't happen by mistake. I didn't buy any lottery tickets this week, so I'm not going to win. I already know that Success leaves clues and I think it's this level of intentionality. You've been so transparent with Ron. I knew we'd be short on time here today, but you've packed so much into that and that's why I love wondering where you're going to take this final question, which is what's your takeaway for so many listeners here today? I feel like you've challenged us to think in new ways, in big ways, in intentional ways, that we're all going to have a lot of food for thought, but what's the one thing you hope every listener walks away from today's session with? Brian, I listened to your podcast quite often and I know that your word for 2024 is building.

35:05 And I think a takeaway plays right off of your word of the year building, because we operate as a company, we operate as a team and we operate to influence our contract partners to be better, to do better and to do more. Growth doesn't simply mean to do more. Sometimes people automatically go to that last, do more component. But to grow can also be to be better, it can be to do better, and I think the order of those are very important as well, because if you are being better and doing better, then there's a much better argument for doing more, because you've got the right foundation of being better and doing better.

36:03 And your word of the year building can apply to an organization wanting to be better, do better, do more. It can apply to an individual who wants to grow in their own career development, leadership development, personal life. To be better, do better, do more. Yes, amen to that. Ron, I'm so appreciative of the support that you offer this show and how much you're committed to it's one of my favorite concepts. A rising tide lifts all boats. It's something that I've seen throughout your own team. I've interacted not just with you ahead of today's session but with your teammate, trey, who works with you, and it's just. It's so clear to everyone on my team as well how much you all are committed to delivering that value and to tie in building, and I love how you pointed out operation, or the order of operations, matters here, because a lot of people, yeah, when I talk about building, they look at buildings and cities and they're like look, how big it is, and I go right back to think about how strong the foundation is and so it really is coming at it from that approach and being so intentional.

37:04 So, ron, you are such a wealth of knowledge. I know that listeners are going to be super keen to go deeper into your work, all the incredible things that you're doing. I think everyone should go to your website, if nothing else just to read your testimonials, because if they want to see what it looks like to positively affect our clients and impact the world, they're going to see it showcased in real time, with real life case studies, on your website, so I'll let you drop those links on us. Where should listeners go to find out more about all the great things that you're up to? We? were actually able to get the web link, the URL whereareyougoingcom. That's the name of our company. That's the URL. The caveat is the R and the U are the letters R and the letter U, so where letter R, letter U goingcom.

37:52 Yes, and listeners, you already know the drill. We are making it as easy as possible for you to find a link to the whereareyougoingcom website, as Ron just spelled out. For us it's an R and a U, but you'll find those links down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning in. We're also linking to Ron's personal LinkedIn, because if you want to stay connected with an amazing entrepreneur who gives so much value and shows up the way that we all should aspire to showing up as leaders who are committed to making the world a better place, then check those show notes. Or if you just wanna reach out and drop a line and say, hey, thanks for being so knowledgeable and transparent and sharing it with all of us here on the show today, I will call you listeners out and point out that less than 1% of people on the planet have the courage to take the risk to actually reach out to people who they hear on podcasts.

38:37 So don't be shy. This is how you add to your professional network and, ron, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thank you, brian, highlight of my week. Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast. If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there. Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom. And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests. There's a reason why we are ad-free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

39:18 These are not sponsored episodes. These are not infomercials. Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions. They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible. So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there. We also have live chat. If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewantrepreneurshowcom. Initiate a live chat. It's for real me and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the WANTrepreneur to