979: REVOLUTIONIZING the dating world with the power of TECH and REAL WORLD interactions w/ Scott Demyon

0:00 Hey, what is up? Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast. As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I'll tell you what we all have heard so many millions of stories about a multi-billion dollar industry that I think it's safe to say most people are very unhappy about, and that is the online dating world, and so that's why today's entrepreneur, I think, is doing incredible work. This is a pioneer, you're going to see, not only is he a pioneer when it comes to the world of online dating and bringing it into a new era that actually connects people in real life, but you're going to see that this is someone who, for a very long time, has been at the cutting edge of technology to move the world forward, move society forward, move the way that technology brings people together forward, and this is someone who's got a ton of skills.

0:48 All the research I did about him. So many people just rave about the fact that he sees opportunities and builds solutions that help people. So let me tell you all about today's guest. His name is Scott Demian. Scott co-founded one of the first mobile dating and chat sites that pioneered mobile dating in the US market all the way back, way earlier than a lot of us think about this industry. In early 2005, phone fling and phone shag grew rapidly, reaching 42 million monthly unique page views solely from feature phone traffic. And that was, if you wanna talk about solving complex problems. This was three years before smartphones even existed. The core two-way opt-in matching system was later demoed to Jonathan Badin in 2009, who went on to co-found Tinder in 2012, utilizing the same algorithm.

1:39 Scott soon realized the architecture of interacting electronically was causing many negative effects to our dating culture. Yes, we all see this. Just turn on the mainstream news and you'll see that online dating and mobile dating apps have a lot of controversies around them. So he created Swerve in response to it. We're going to hear a lot about Swerve and I'm going to tell you the way that Scott is thinking about. All the ingredients that create successful connections in real life are present in Swerve. I'm excited to learn from Scott and the way that his business mind works and the way that he's building Swerve. So I'm not going to say anything else. Let's dive straight into my interview with Scott Demian. All right, scott, I'm so very excited that you're here with us today.

2:23 First things first, welcome to the show. Thank you, brian. I'm happy to be here. Heck, yes. So you have got such an incredible background, scott. Honestly, the more I dug into not only what you're up to now with Swerve, but all the things you've done in your career. You've got skills, you've got vision. You're amazing at bringing them to the world. So you've got to take us beyond the bio. Who's Scott? How'd you start doing all these amazing things? Yeah, so we actually stumbled into the industry back in 2004. You know it was that, you know, going back to that time period of flip phones where there was barely even a mobile internet. At that time, specifically, it was the week that, you know, you could send a text message to your friends, but of a sudden you could send an mms, a picture message.

3:07 So an idea kind of popped in my head and we were looking for a new idea to build for like months and all of a sudden I was just like it wouldn't be cool if, randomly, throughout the day, you got a picture of somebody in your area that you might be interested in, and if you were interested and you reply to the message, we would send your picture to that person's phone. They had the same interaction. If they're interested and they replied, you had a connection, you could start chatting. It was a new way to kind of engage and meet people, you know, using this new mobile technology, mobile internet. So we built that out and, yeah, it took off like crazy and back then, you know, there wasn't really there wasn't a lot of competition, there was nowhere to go on these little mobile enabled phones.

3:50 So it grew fairly quickly and, you know, had some pretty good success with it and you know, like in my bio, we ended up demoing it to one of the co-founders of Tinder. There's a little controversy over, you know, how much influence we had withfounders of Tinder. There's a little controversy over how much influence we had with the creation of Tinder. But we demoed that platform and along comes Tinder. That has a similar interaction where if you both swipe right, you have that connection, you could start chatting. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into this industry and ever since I've just been hooked on examining that social interaction that happens over mobile technology and that, since I've just been hooked on, you know, just examining that, that, that social interaction that happens over mobile technology, and that's what's led me to create Swerve in response to the negative effects that technology has taken on our dating culture.

4:37 Yeah, I think that's a really cool overview because it shows that even when technology couldn't do the things that it could do today, you were already thinking about ways to just bring people together, and even as simple as the illustration you just gave us of MMS messages. Those were so those are revolutionary. At the time, scott, we were all typing and remember T9, most people who grew up today most kids don't know what that is. Type an S. You know, I think seven, four times. You know. Text messaging back then was, you know you had to. Your mind had to be sharp to get those words out. It's funny. We were quick, though. We knew exactly what number to press and how many times to press it. So we all learned. But what I think is really cool is that you not only focused on the technology of those days, but really the thread throughout your entire career is how do we bring people together, regardless of what the technology enables?

5:23 Now, obviously, it enables so much more, Scott. There's multi-billion dollar companies and brands trying to solve this problem. Talk to us about that gap in the marketplace, that opportunity that you looked at and you said no one's happy with these solutions. Let's do things better. Yeah, and I think you know the answer to this. You know, we're humans, we evolved to have that in person connection. You know there's so many cues that that happen in person with you know body language, personality, emotion that you just were not getting through electronic interaction that these dating apps facilitate. So that's kind of what led me to, you know, to see these, see these problems Years ago, I think, 2016,.

6:06 You know, I had a roommate and she would go out and you know she'd she'd match with somebody and get so excited and I wouldn't hear the end of this, this person for like a week until she went and met him and all of a sudden, just nothing. And I was like, well, you know, I'd hear from her. Like, you know, they're just not the same as what I envisioned, you know, and I think what we do is naturally we're just filling in those gaps, that those social cues you know that are missing. We fill them in and you build up this persona of the person that you're interacting with and when you go meet them in person, they're just not exactly who you thought or expected them to be. So that's kind of how I started creating swerve. I said, look, you know, there must be a better way to connect people using mobile technology.

6:51 We have these supercomputers in our pocket and you know there's, there's a better architecture here to to connect people. And then that's where you know, swerve takes a drastic turn. And I know there's a ton, there's a million dating apps out there right now, but they all follow the same broken architecture where they match you, but then you're, you know, as an end user, you're supposed to interact with this potential match electronically and you know, over text message or or you know, various means of electronic communication, and that's what. That's the problem that I see and that's what I wanted to create Swerve in response to. So with Swerve, the big difference here is you know, I do the same.

7:33 You know, tell me about yourself what you're looking for physically, socially, and that's where the turn, you know the change, comes in, instead of matching you up or just serving you up endless profiles for you to passively swipe through while you're sitting on your couch. I don't want that interaction. So what I do is all of the people that match with what you're looking for, I'm plotting them on a map anonymously, by default, so that you can decide the better places to go for a higher chance of bumping into those people organically while you're already out. So say, you're heading out on a Friday night and we all do this inherently You're kind of going out shooting in the dark, right, you're going to go, maybe, to a bar, a club or a restaurant and you're hoping that somebody is going to be there that matches with what you're looking for.

8:24 But what if you could see, hey, that bar has four potential matches for me, but the bar or restaurant across the street has 23 potential matches that match with what you're looking for. So now you change your plans or swerve your plans to that bar across the street and you just have a higher chance of bumping into the person that you want to meet organically. So that's kind of where Swerve is completely different than everything that's out there so far. Yeah, I really appreciate that overview and the way that you've thought about this, because it actually sounds to me like you're thinking of it in reverse of how most other dating apps work is you know, the bumbles, the hinges you name it of the world they all focus on.

9:08 Our dating app is the platform through which these connections happen. You're thinking like a real life person who goes out into the world. You go grocery shopping, you go to bars, you go to coffee shops and you think of it first and foremost as those real life geographic locations and then build a solution onto it. So I really appreciate that, scott, and it begs the question. I'm obviously going to throw a little bit of shade at traditional dating apps here in today's episode, because the one thing that's always stood out to me as a business person is that they say we've designed this app for you to delete it, and that is amidst the fact that they charge you these exorbitant monthly fees and they keep people on there. They hide matches, they don't bring you the people that you're best suited for.

9:50 Scott, please, as someone who's been in this industry for a long time, talk to us about the realities of this marketplace and how Swerve's doing it a bit differently. Yeah, I mean, you know you have to remember these are big, you know, corporations. They have boards to to to please and they are not designed to be deleted, if you think about it. They have the ability to match you up with the right people. Yet you're you're still swiping through just general. You know a long list and endless supply of people, and that's where their model steps in is they need that endless supply. They want you sitting there swiping, you know, endlessly, all day, as much as possible.

10:33 The more you're interacting in that platform, the more potential money they're making through ads or through you wanting, you know, getting frustrated and wanting a premium subscription With Swerve. You know that's not my goal. I'm not a big company. You know. I've built this to make a difference, to give people more value, that that actually works for them, you know. So my, my, my platform. You don't need a premium subscription. You can go match and see where those people are. I have a, you know I do have a platinum membership. That's, you know, you know, very cheap compared to the other ones. But they just give you extra perks. So it's not really required and it helps me keep my server lights on at this point.

11:13 So you know, my goal, my vision, is to just provide a platform that is actually useful and doesn't waste your time. You know you're not using this to passively find people. You're using it while you go out. You know, and that's the beauty of it is it's trying to encourage that. That social interaction again, and all the other mainstream apps you know they're designed for you to to be antisocial, sit on your couch and browse through, just like general social media has made us less social. Traditional dating platforms have made us less. That dating culture has been destroyed, and that's where I'm really trying to hone in and solve these problems that all of these major platforms have created for our dating culture.

12:00 Yeah, it's fun to hear your thoughts in real time here on the air together, because it just sounds to me like you've thought about all the different aspects of it. Hearing the way you talk about the real life locations and hearing the way that people are sitting on their couch swiping through dating apps, that's not bringing them any closer to their person, and so, with that in mind, one thing that really stood out to me the more that I researched swerve, is that you've thought about the things that aren't even as sexy to talk about with regards to safety, background location, your phone's, access to your personal data. Talk to us about those considerations, scott, because I know you've been in the tech world for a long time and I would imagine that your foresight and vision there allows you to even answer questions that most end users probably don't even think about when they sign up for something.

12:45 Yeah. So safety is a huge thing, right? Swerve is location based and there's an inherent stigma of you know, is it tracking me or? Or, you know, will I be tracked through the platform and all of these things I've I've extensively thought through and put in mechanisms to to ensure your safety. So by default, you are anonymous, right? So when you go online, you're just shown as an anonymous pin and people can see why you match with what they're looking for. They can't identify you. They can't go find you wherever you are. Your location is not updated in real time. It's every five minutes by default, and you can adjust those time intervals.

13:27 It's showing your general location and the goal is to get people to the right places. If you're a good match for somebody, you want to find them. They want to find you. Keeping you anonymous by default allows you to control your privacy and control that aspect of a location based platform. You can. You can show and hide your photos if you do want to be recognized, say you're, you know you're sitting at the bar and and you want to be recognized. You have the ability to make yourself recognizable or so people can come, come find you or recognize you Other aspects if you don't want to be online so you go out on a Friday night.

14:11 I encourage people to set up what I call our privacy areas, and they're essentially a geofence around any location and you can change the size, the location of these geofence areas and what happens is if you forget to go offline or say you're going home from the bar and you forget, it'll auto the platform will automatically remove you from being online as soon as you enter in one of those areas. So you set a radius a couple of miles around your home. As soon as you enter in that radius, you're offline, you're not visible to anybody else. Movement detection so the platform will automatically detect if you start walking from your current location or you get in an Uber.

14:54 Same thing all of your updates, all of your location goes on pause until you get to your destination and stay there for a few minutes. So if you're walking down the street, you're not going to be shown until you get to that next place or wherever you're going. So a lot of these things have been put into place to make sure that nobody can follow you. Nobody can track you. I've extensively user tested these with large groups of people and said, hey, try to track this person and you can't do it on the platform. If you're in person, at a bar with somebody, it would be a lot easier to just follow them than track them through the platform. So it's not an easy task and that's part of my marketing to educate people about.

15:40 Hey, this is how it works and these are the things that are happening behind the scenes that protect you. And those are just a few. I love hearing those insights, scott, because, again, those are things that I don't think most of us would think about. Obviously, you have the benefit of real life users that you can hear their concerns and you can address those, but I wonder where that comes from for you, because you have such a technical background, because you also have that strategic and that business mindset. How do you explain what you're doing with Swerve to people? Is it a tech company? Is it a people and social interaction company? Walk us through the way that your mind works, because I know that you really have both of those sides of the coin at your disposal in the way that you make decisions as a business owner.

16:23 Yeah, you know the way I describe it is. You know I like to be visionary with the technologies that I build, I think back in 2005,. You know we were ahead of our time with phone playing and you see how that evolved into Tinder and with Swerve. I also think I'm a little ahead of my time, but I think people are ready for, you know, to go back to in-person interactions. You know that's a big trend. I'm seeing on social media that people want to go back to in person interactions. You know that's a big trend. I'm seeing on social media that people want to go back to meeting in the water. You know, and this is how dating we've evolved to date was to go meet people and interact with them. You know, you know within seconds if there's chemistry with somebody when you, when you meet them in person organically and that's kind of what I've been trying to capture with Swerve is, hey, how can I help you go back to that, help everybody go back to that, to have those in-person encounters?

17:21 You know, get you to the right places. You know Swerve can't guarantee if you get to that bar with 23 people that you're going to actually meet one of them, but your chances of crossing paths are higher. You know whether that's at a restaurant, maybe a grocery store that you're visiting, you know, and if you get to the right places and have those ability to meet, you know, people that match. What you're looking for that's, you know. That's the advantage that I'm after and I am actually creating new interactions. So say, you're at a bar, um, you'd be able to invite a couple matches to come come meet you and come find you. And with ultra wideband on the newer phones, what I could do is almost like a hot or cold on your device so you can see whether you're getting closer or further away.

18:08 Um, I could even potentially do like a pokemon go to you know, to you know, find your matches at a, you know, at the venue that you're at. So all of these things are in development and I'm working on, but I want to create just new, unique, creative ways that can connect people that you know, help them meet new people and get out there and, you know, have those in-person connections again. Yeah, hearing this, scott, honestly, I'm thinking about all the ingredients of your business gamification. It's something that we haven't explicitly talked about, but really, underneath all these things we're talking about is you're looking to make it fun again, which gosh. The existing apps have taken so much of the fun out of dating, out of meeting people.

18:52 I would argue that social media and headphones and a lot of other things have also taken away the fun of meeting people organically, and that's coming from an extreme extrovert like myself. So huge kudos to you, scott. And it begs the question, though you say that the market is ready. What's that market penetration plan look like? Because, if I could snap my fingers, I wish every single fellow millennial of me would have this app starting today. So I'd love to hear some of those growth plans from your end. Yeah, I mean largely. You know social media. Reach is what I'm after. I'm actually on the on the hunt for a good co founder. That that you know can can market this in a better way. You know I'm good with the product and the platform, but marketing is not necessarily my, my specialty.

19:33 Um, but I think you know when people learn what Swerve does, that, that light bulb goes off. Everybody I've told the idea to was like oh my God, that's genius. Like you know, even to the point where I've I've wanted to give up so many times. And you know I I went to a, I went to an Airbnb in Cape Cod one winter and we were sitting around a fire with another couple and they were like no, you have to keep building that. Like, the world needs that. Like, please keep keep pushing. And little things like that have kept me going. You know, through the I think the eight years I've been, I've been building this platform and you know I I won't give up. I I really do believe in the vision. I believe that this is a new, fun way to meet new people and I think it's a better way to utilize the technology than trying to interact electronically, and I think so many people are just frustrated with the platforms that are out there that they don't work.

20:26 You get ghosted. There's fake profiles. There's things that I've seen, because I build this stuff, that are actually scary to me. With all the AI bots and AI taking hold, you got to imagine you don't really know who's on the other end of that profile. And when I researched all these big platforms, what I see and this is the scary part is what they're starting to do is they'll connect with you, they'll match with you right on Tinder Hinge and what's happening in that scenario? You are in a vulnerable place where you're trying to get to know and build trust and build connection with this unknown entity on the other end and if that unknown entity isn't the person that's in those pictures, say, this is some nefarious entity.

21:20 What they're doing is they're extracting your personal information so they're learning about you and think about unlimited AI bots. They can now connect with you on endless profiles. So you're swiping, you think you're matching with all these attractive people. They are now extracting personal information about you where you grew up, what pet you have, and they can tailor the future conversations, future profiles that you match with to say, hey, I have an English bulldog as well, and now they're going to build trust quicker with you. They're going to extract more personal information from you. Now they're going to be able to go hack your, your bank account, your social media accounts, your email accounts, because you know they.

22:02 They learn that information. You know the three questions that you have to answer to reset your password. They'll. They'll target that information when you're interacting with them and that's the scary part that I think people don't even realize is happening behind the scenes right now, and I think that's going to get worse the more AI takes hold. So that's going to create a big trust issue with these traditional platforms where you really have no idea who's on the other end or what is on the other end of that platform, that profile. Yeah, Scott, dare I say I mean hearing you talk about these concerns. It almost sounds to me like swerve is, at least from what I know. Obviously, I don't have my finger on the pulse of the entire market, but it sounds to me like you are truly the AI proof dating network, because you can't go ahead exactly.

22:51 You know, like when you know if you go expecting to see like match one, two or three or whatever, like if, if, if they put fake pictures, if they put fake information, you know you're just not gonna meet them. They're, they're only hurting themselves. So it takes away all the incentive for people to lie or or put fake, fake profiles, fake pictures. Um, if they're not there, you know you're just going, you're going about your night anyway. So it's not, it's not wasting your time. You know, and I also. You know it's not. It's not designed to keep you hooked and addicted and swiping. You know you're using this more as a tool to get you to the right places, rather than something that's designed to keep your attention and keep you addicted, sitting there, swiping, you know, hoping for that positive outcome.

23:35 You know it's really a change on this, this whole architecture, and you know, going into this, I wanted to reinvent the dating app wheel and go back and build something that fixes all of these pitfalls that traditional platforms have. Yeah, scott, I'll tell you what. It kind of makes me selfishly want to ask you this next question because in the world of business, we have so many conversations here on this show about the positive impacts of AI, and I'll say that when I look at the landscape of your industry, I see some weird business models out there. Whether we're talking about AI generative art and the things that people are doing with that in your space, or AI messaging, there's so many different ways that AI is impacting the dating world.

24:17 What are some of the positive use cases? Do you see AI, in positive ways, playing a role in all of this? Well, yeah, I, you know I have a lot of ideas. You know AI is definitely, you know, spurred my creativity. I'm working with a company or, you know, in the process of partnering. So you know, if you think about, when you go on a dating platform and you tell about yourself, you have a certain bias, right, you want to market yourself in a positive way, and what I'm looking at is is potentially having AI go in and look at your social interactions and I'm still evaluating whether I want to do this yet but it will go and try to gauge and create templates on your personality, right.

24:59 What things do you like? What do you like on Facebook, what are the restaurants you go to, and kind of create a persona that all happens behind the scenes but then allows it to connect you with like minded people. You know more than what you can potentially, you know, fill out, you know and enter in for your profile, but more of a like an AI matching system that goes in and tries to, tries to not have that bias. It's just going and it's going to match you with the people that it thinks you know you would be a good connection for. So that's one thing I'm looking into.

25:39 Another aspect was you know this is what I'm kind of dreaming up is imagine if you I probably shouldn't be talking about this, but imagine if you could go on screen and the AI creates kind of a visual representation of who you might be attracted to and you sit there and interact with this avatar or this, this AI being. It's asking you questions to learn your personality, learn all the things about you that it needs to to create that persona directly, all the things about you that it needs to to create that persona directly. But then it could even morph its physical appearance and gauge your reaction, gauge how you answer questions to really learn what you're physically attracted to and you know, by doing that it can create.

26:24 You know this whole system behind the scenes that you know has the ability to tap into the other people you know, physically, socially, that you might be interested in. So those are other things that I'm exploring in the background and a visionary CEO of this company, and it's really cool to hear in real time just some of your thoughts, which I think it's something that is typical for all of us entrepreneurs is we have no shortage of ideas. Let me ask you this because, obviously, from a technical perspective, you're already in the Apple App Store, you're already in the Android App Store, you've got a lot of cool things going on. How do you personally prioritize, since you have no shortage of ideas? How do you personally prioritize, since you have no shortage of ideas?

27:05 What are the things that on your whiteboard, you say, hey, let's do this, let's shelve this, let's just idea eight on this. I'd love to hear how you organize some of those thoughts. Yeah, I think you know, right now my biggest thing is just getting it off the ground. I've been targeting, you know, southern California area, so a lot of my time has been going into, you know, new strategies on that user acquisition. And with any platform like this, you need people on there to have that interaction, to have that positive outcome, that positive feedback from people. So that's my highest priority In any of my spare time. I'm always brainstorming new things, new features. I have a whole.

27:46 One of the features that popped in my head was and it all stems from being able to foresee what a venue looks like, right? So I have this feature set that's already built in, called feeds, and what a feed is is anybody can create a feed around a business. Say, you know, say there's certain bars that you go to. You can create a feed around those bars and once that feed is created, anybody can subscribe or follow that feed. So say, you have bar, you know, bar bar XYZ down the street. You create a feed around it and you can follow it and anybody that goes to that bar can can follow that feed.

28:28 Now the trick here is you, as a user, you have to be inside that geo fenced area of that feed to be able to post a picture or post content to that feed. So what this is doing is, say, a Friday night you want to look at, you know how that bar looks like, you can pull it up and you know that the pictures that are taken were posted from people that are physically there and even having the ability to, you know, view the profile of maybe it's a match that's there. So now not only can you see pictures and see how it looks, you know you can see the potential matches that are there as well.

29:14 So it's all designed to guide you to those places where you have that better chance of meeting somebody that you're interested in. So you know, I'm always creating these features and testing them out and, you know, just seeing the adoption of them. Scott. All of these things have one common thread, though, and that is you're solving big problems in a massively huge industry that touches all of our lives. Anyone who's not married. We're all on the hunt, always, no matter where it is that we go, and you're solving these real life problems. So I so appreciate the work that you're doing, but I also know that big problems require big solutions, and big solutions sometimes require big resources. From an entrepreneurial perspective, it's fun to me in these conversations to just talk business owner to business owner.

29:55 The investment route is something that I know, that there are investors on your horizon. What about that model appeals to you? What is something that you know that will accelerate your progress there? I'm super curious to get inside your mind when it comes to the investment route. Yeah, I've gone down that road a little bit and I think every investor at this point is they're afraid of dating platforms. Right, there's a million of them out there and they're very difficult to get off the ground and that's the big hurdle, right, they're very difficult to get off the ground and that's the big hurdle right. I am actively seeking investment. I think you know I could get this off the ground, you know, with not a big amount of investment, just the advertising I've done has been very effective.

30:38 People are very receptive to this. You know this innovation in this industry, so it's not a matter of needing a ton of money, but I think the more money that I can market and advertise, the more that's gonna draw people in and the more people that are on the platform, the more it takes off. Right In my first 100 users, I had somebody upgrade to the Platinum membership. They're seeing the value of the platform and even though there wasn't anybody else on the platform, they still wanted to. You know, upgrade and get that membership. So all of my metrics, all of my traction look really great. It's just a matter of you know, the more people we bring in, the more money it's going to generate, and you know that is the end goal of every business.

31:22 But you know that that's. You know that is the end goal of every business. But you know I'm not. That's not my priority. My priority is to is to to get something out there that that people use and just like with phone playing. You know I love the aspect of creating something that that people utilize and find value in. And you know we used to get emails of people saying, hey, I met my significant other, you know we're having a baby. You know thanks. You know we used to get emails of people saying, hey, I met my significant other, you know we're having a baby, you know. Thanks, you know. Thank you to you guys for connecting us. And that's my biggest reward is creating something that people get that value from. And then you know, something that's new and innovative as well. Yeah, I love hearing it. Scott, you brought the word up and I'm a big fan of just going down these rabbit holes when new topics arise.

32:07 You talked about metrics. What sort of metrics do you have your eyes on, because I'm personally very much rooting for your market penetration. So what's the path there? What are those metrics that guide those decisions? And I kind of had a back and forth with the co-founder of Tinder and he, in my mind, kind of acknowledged the idea that he looked into this in 2015. But he said he's like, look, he's like I wouldn't attempt this without the network of Tinder behind me. And where I disagree with that is the market already exists. I don't need to create the market, I just need to get that brand awareness out there.

32:48 Everybody that learns about Swerve and learns what it's doing just loves that innovative aspect of it. All the single people, all the people leaving dating apps they're tired of that same old model that doesn't work. Swerve is something new and different. Uh, I just have to capture their attention. Uh, so that's that's my. My goal is is to get you know, get those numbers up, get that awareness up. Um and and yeah, I think you know, once I, once I am able to to draw more people into the platform, it snowball is just going to start rolling on its own and it's going to take off. My marketing is focused on, like I said, the Southern California area, but I'm actively seeing people all over the country signing in and logging on, and that's a good sign.

33:40 Word of mouth is spreading, people are telling their friends and that's great for any business to you know, see that growth without even making that effort to get in those areas. So just a matter of time, I think. Yeah, and I mean you brought the word up and I think that it's especially relevant for your business, which is the snowball effect. I would imagine it's extraordinarily strong because the more people that are on Swerve it's actually a rare case where their users, your users are incentivized for even more people to be on there, so they will naturally become ambassadors for Swerve and all the great things that you're up to. So, yes, revolutionizing an industry that is ripe for the picking. Huge kudos to you, scott.

34:21 I've even had users reach out asking to be investors. They believe in it, they see the potential and that keeps me pushing as well, seeing that feedback and that adoption. Yeah, absolutely Well. It's just a testament to the great work that you're doing, and I think that what's been on huge display here during this episode is the way that you think about these things through a place of service. And, of course, at the root of what you're doing with Swerve is genuine connection, and I think that's something that we're all begging for more and more here at the end of 2024, and especially going into 2025. So you're doing important work, scott, and I love asking this question at the end of every episode, because I have no idea what direction you're going to take it in, and that is your best piece of advice.

35:04 You are in the trenches. You've been doing this work for so long. You are a pioneer and a visionary in so many different ways, knowing that listeners are tuning in at all different stages of their own business growth. What's that one piece of knowledge that you want to impart on them? Yeah, you know, I know this is a common thing with founders I have days where nothing happens, as much as I try to push and grind. You're going to have those days where it's going to feel like a standstill. You're going to want to push in some other direction. You have to just be patient and and realize that those days are going to happen.

35:49 Those, those frustrating times are going to happen and, like I said, so many times I've I've wanted to give up, give up on this, like, why am I still doing this? You know, and um, it's, it's just taken. It's taken the right amount of time to to evolve the platform and and so many different things. And you know, like I sail, obviously, and it's just a matter of finding the right winds to keep you moving forward. And I think you just have to be patient sometimes and wait for that next gust of wind to take you and get you to the next step. So it's, you know, the biggest thing I would say is, through my learning, is just be patient. And you know the biggest thing I would say is, through my learning, is just be patient. And, you know, if you believe in your vision, keep, keep pushing and keep going until you get to the place that you need to be.

36:34 Yes, great advice for every single one of us. Scott, I know that a part of you is speaking to yourself there. It's resonating deeply with me and I think it's advice that not only do we need to hear once, but it's a constant reminder. So hugely appreciative of you sharing your message, your insights, your really just hearing your thought process in real time as an executive, as someone who's pushing an important business forward, I'm so appreciative of that. So you've got to drop some links on us, scott. I know that myself and the entire entrepreneur to entrepreneur community worldwide, we're all rooting for Swerve. From this point, I personally am excited to introduce you to some people who I know will be big ambassadors on route of your mission. So drop those links on us. Where should listeners go from here?

37:15 Yeah, I mean, you know, just checking it out in the app store Swerve, so Swerve without the E, so S-W-E-R-V Swerve Dating on the app stores. We just I just revamped my website, swervedatingcom, and that's really all I have so far. Like I said, I'm not a big company. I'm just one person trying to change the world at this point and hoping for the best. Yes, amen to that. Listeners, you already know we are making it as easy as possible for you to find Swerve online and in the app stores. Check out the links in the show notes down below. No matter where it is that you're tuning into today's episode, we'll link directly to Scott's website at swervedatingcom. That's S-W-E-R-V datingcom Super easy to remember, but you can click right on through from the show notes.

37:58 We're also linking directly to his links in the app store, so definitely go check those out. Otherwise, scott, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thank you as well, Brian. Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast. If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there. Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests. There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

38:38 These are not sponsored episodes. These are not infomercials. Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions. They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible. So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there. We also have live chat. If you want to interact directly with me, go to the wantrepreneurshowcom, initiate a live chat. It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and sunday here on the wantrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.