WEBVTT
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:01.022
Hey, what is up?
00:00:01.022 --> 00:00:04.131
Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
00:00:04.131 --> 00:00:12.429
As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and if you've ever sat there thinking how the heck am I supposed to hone in on the business that I'm meant to start?
00:00:12.429 --> 00:00:32.244
I have too many passions, I have too many disciplines that I like to operate in, well then you're going to love today's guest and today's entrepreneur, because this is someone who not only is incredibly brilliant at all the things that she does, but I love the way that she sees the world and apply those lessons, those skills, those passions, those disciplines to finding solutions for others.
00:00:32.244 --> 00:00:33.829
So let me introduce you to today's guest.
00:00:34.049 --> 00:00:35.313
Her name is Shefali Mehta.
00:00:35.313 --> 00:00:42.948
Shefali is an economist and statistician who loves working with individuals and organizations to increase their impact.
00:00:42.948 --> 00:00:51.348
While economics and statistics form the foundation for everything she does, the work that she loves to undertake cannot be easily categorized.
00:00:51.348 --> 00:00:54.249
A lot of you will probably perk your ears up at that.
00:00:54.249 --> 00:01:00.128
You don't feel like you fit into one of those boxes that everyone tries to pigeonhole all of us into.
00:01:00.128 --> 00:01:06.126
Her work instead cuts across disciplines, focusing more on the problem to solve or the objective to attain.
00:01:06.126 --> 00:01:15.873
She supports her personal mission through several interconnected activities, from consulting and advising to researching, teaching, implementing and coaching, advocating and volunteering.
00:01:15.873 --> 00:01:27.768
In 2017, she founded her own company, open Rivers Consulting Associates, which is a science and technology and management consulting firm that builds upon their clients' strengths to develop and implement strategy.
00:01:27.768 --> 00:01:40.468
Their work delivers holistic, impactful strategy guided by five core principles innovation, compassion, decision-making driven by data and science, diversity of perspectives and the prioritization of environment.
00:01:40.768 --> 00:01:53.269
We are all going to not only learn so much from Shefali here today, but she's really going to invite us to change the way that we see the world, that we see our businesses, the way that we see our problems and, for sure, the way that we find solutions.
00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:54.760
I'm excited about this one.
00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:56.103
I'm not going to say anything else.
00:01:56.103 --> 00:01:58.951
Let's dive straight into my interview with Shefali Mehta.
00:01:58.951 --> 00:02:05.171
All right, shefali, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
00:02:05.171 --> 00:02:06.003
First things first.
00:02:06.003 --> 00:02:06.826
Welcome to the show.
00:02:06.826 --> 00:02:08.782
It's great to be here.
00:02:08.823 --> 00:02:09.546
Brian, thank you.
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:10.199
Heck.
00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:18.510
Yes, so listeners won't know how much you and I just geeked out about economics before we hit record, but I'm sure that's a perfect segue for you to take us beyond the bio.
00:02:18.510 --> 00:02:19.461
Who's Shefali?
00:02:19.461 --> 00:02:21.109
How'd you start doing all these cool things?
00:02:22.820 --> 00:02:23.522
Absolutely Well.
00:02:23.522 --> 00:02:37.239
I grew up in New England, in Connecticut, and I just remember from the earliest age like I loved learning, I love things and you know, I think when it came time to go, what do I want to study, I had a hard time figuring.
00:02:37.239 --> 00:02:39.104
I mean, I was focused on neuroscience.
00:02:39.104 --> 00:02:41.449
I loved economics, I love comp sci.
00:02:41.449 --> 00:02:57.223
And I remember my first week at NYU they gave me the course I had signed up for, neuroscience undergrad and I looked and I realized I had classes on Friday and all the other like students don't only the science kids did and I want to say that my laziness helped me prioritize.
00:02:57.302 --> 00:02:59.794
I realized I didn't want to do any science courses.
00:02:59.794 --> 00:03:05.407
So I suddenly switched my major to economics and computer science, which is funny because I went to NYU to study neuroscience.
00:03:05.407 --> 00:03:14.913
But I'm so grateful I did that because economics gave me the breath to go and say I don't actually have to limit myself, it's like a tool that can be applied to anything.
00:03:14.913 --> 00:03:17.125
And then I started to bring in statistics.
00:03:17.125 --> 00:03:21.281
I did a minor in history, I was doing my master's in public policy.
00:03:21.281 --> 00:03:26.091
It was just great to be at this big university where I could just study and then I'm outside in the community.
00:03:26.131 --> 00:03:43.802
And I just kept bringing more in and more in watching people protesting sweatshops and like unfair labor conditions, to like helping like young kids, like young young women, young girls who are in our community to get access to higher ed and everything, and that really just kind of drove me further into this.
00:03:43.802 --> 00:03:46.025
We don't have to limit ourselves.
00:03:46.064 --> 00:04:09.269
We get to explore and be, and everything we learn just becomes that much more impactful to the next step that we go after always felt that way as a student too, where I was like some people might label it lazy, but I'm going to find the best way to do it and that's why I've always loved that quote of efficiency is intelligent laziness.
00:04:09.269 --> 00:04:15.192
So I love the way that that has guided you into finding these solutions, because I think we need an element of that.
00:04:15.192 --> 00:04:24.170
Talk to us about economics as the foundation, because I think for both you and I, it's probably a misunderstood part about our backgrounds where people say why economics?
00:04:24.170 --> 00:04:25.632
Like what the heck is that going to do for you?
00:04:25.632 --> 00:04:28.394
Neither of us work a traditional job in economics.
00:04:28.394 --> 00:04:29.942
We don't work at the Federal Reserve.
00:04:29.942 --> 00:04:32.187
Why is that such a good foundation to launch from?
00:04:33.149 --> 00:04:42.345
Absolutely, and I think it's one of the I love that you have that background and I think I've seen this and others is when we really connect with the field of economics.
00:04:42.345 --> 00:04:53.189
Really what it is at the heart is it's understanding how to study the systems we created, our economies, created by humans, the way we interact, how we allocate resources, how we make decisions.
00:04:53.189 --> 00:05:03.072
So it's really around the fundamentals of understanding how we interact with one another, how we interact with the environment, with just taking care of one another, really at the heart of it.
00:05:03.072 --> 00:05:13.872
And it's also founded on the basis of like math, so you have mathematics that is really helping to understand and like establish the theory and really these first principles.
00:05:13.872 --> 00:05:25.170
And so once you kind of get comfortable with looking at I would think of it as systems, a systems lens, like looking at it from that way, it really I think it just unleashes a lot of power because there's no restriction.
00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:27.007
You can say, okay, well, what do I understand?
00:05:27.401 --> 00:05:40.851
Prior to us recording, we were talking about just basic spending, what happens in our economy when we have a contraction, and whether it's government spending, consumer spending, business spending, and they're just basic principles and understanding of how our economy works.
00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:50.627
So then we can go and look at whether it's a micro situation in our own personal lives, in our own businesses, and say what could be happening to some of the macro issues around what's happening to our society.
00:05:50.839 --> 00:06:06.062
In my case, that's how do I work with my clients and my collaborators to advise them in terms of where they should focus, where their risk is, and so economics, to me, is this incredible tool that can be applied, so you don't have to have I think it's a lot of there's a misnomer.
00:06:06.081 --> 00:06:19.033
People think that there's this or or belief that you, to be an economist, you need to be at a university or you're working in, like the financial markets actually, the economists that I love working with and the path I took is you take it on the road.
00:06:19.033 --> 00:06:23.725
You know it's really applied, it's made to be applied, and so I call myself an applied economist.
00:06:23.725 --> 00:06:31.803
I've been applying it for over 20 years in everything that I do and every subsequent like I would say it's almost like active research.
00:06:31.803 --> 00:06:33.970
Everything that I look at it feeds into my.
00:06:33.970 --> 00:06:52.504
I do a lot of work on how people do decision making, and that was actually the focus of my dissertation, and so it's been 20 years now almost since I defended and I look at every single thing I've done is only just furthered my understanding of decision making under uncertainty and really strengthened that basis that I had formed in economics.
00:06:53.065 --> 00:06:54.269
Yeah, Shefali, I'm gonna.
00:06:54.269 --> 00:07:06.754
I guess I'll out myself a little bit here on the air, because in over 1100 episodes I've actually never talked about the defining moment that changed the entire course of what I majored in in college and how I approach business and how I find solutions.
00:07:06.754 --> 00:07:18.572
But you just called out those three words, and so I'll take you all the way back 21 years to when I was 15 years old, sitting in a high school classroom and my economics teacher at the time said raise your hand if you think you know what economics is.
00:07:18.572 --> 00:07:19.925
And you've hit the nail on the head.
00:07:19.925 --> 00:07:21.120
Obviously you live in this world.
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.624
I was such an excited young student.
00:07:24.624 --> 00:07:26.665
I was like it's the study of the stock market.
00:07:26.665 --> 00:07:29.288
We figure out how to make money and that's what everybody thinks about it.
00:07:29.288 --> 00:07:31.329
But he immediately shut me down.
00:07:31.329 --> 00:07:33.252
He said no, Brian, it's very simple.
00:07:33.252 --> 00:07:36.814
It is the study of the allocation of scarce resources.
00:07:36.814 --> 00:07:45.170
And you said it right there in your overview If we study how we allocate resources, Shefali, since that day I've treated most problems.
00:07:45.271 --> 00:07:47.466
I want to say all, but obviously there's exceptions to every rule.
00:07:47.466 --> 00:07:53.769
I've treated most problems as a resource problem or an allocation problem rather than a resource problem.
00:07:53.769 --> 00:07:55.841
What does that mean for me as an entrepreneur?
00:07:55.841 --> 00:08:11.894
Well, anytime I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, well gosh, I didn't get enough done this week, it's not a resource problem, it's not that I didn't have enough time, it's how I allocated that time, that allocation of resources, understanding that things are allocation problems rather than resource problems.
00:08:11.894 --> 00:08:15.512
Even when I started my first business with $100, I didn't have the resources.
00:08:15.512 --> 00:08:17.521
I had to allocate those very carefully.
00:08:17.521 --> 00:08:33.269
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this allocation because, to me, we're really uncovering one of the things that people who haven't studied economics are missing when it comes to solving problems in their businesses and I'm going to extrapolate it in their lives 100%.
00:08:33.309 --> 00:08:37.029
You hit the nail on the head because that's so much of the work that I do with my clients and with others.
00:08:37.029 --> 00:08:38.361
It's allocation of resources.
00:08:38.361 --> 00:08:47.073
So it's interesting, I think, when I ask a nonprofit or you ask, like I work with a lot of R&D folks across sectors and others and I'm like what's the number one thing you're missing?
00:08:47.073 --> 00:08:52.240
Like I want more resources, more money.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:52.760
Well, everybody does.
00:08:52.760 --> 00:08:58.888
You know, we live in a world of restrained resources and, as we ought to, we work in a fixed environment and a fixed earth, so really it's not what can you do with more?
00:08:58.888 --> 00:09:06.035
It's really, you know, and in cases yes, let's put that to the side Over a second there are definitely places that are like, hey, more is going to make this, this is what we can do.
00:09:06.035 --> 00:09:11.025
But let's look at a fixed constraints Like this is the time, like time, this is the time I have in a day.
00:09:11.025 --> 00:09:13.467
How do I optimize my allocation of that time?
00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:29.601
And I think, as an entrepreneur, I'm consistently working with startups that are private or nonprofit startups, and that's when I think the leading issue that I've seen, and also the drive to success, is how well are you at allocating your resources, which really comes into how well do you know your strengths?
00:09:29.601 --> 00:09:34.825
How well do you understand your time and really the ability to say no and put up boundaries and prioritize.
00:09:34.825 --> 00:09:40.563
So we started and I mentioned that kind of laziness and I love how you said that that quote.
00:09:40.563 --> 00:09:43.429
What it really is is under that is it's prioritization.
00:09:43.429 --> 00:09:47.118
We're in a constant optimization cycle and this is how I've run through my life.
00:09:47.118 --> 00:09:53.091
It's how I run my businesses, it's how I work with my clients, it's how I run my family and my household.
00:09:53.091 --> 00:09:57.389
It's really going through everything and saying how do I better use what I have?
00:09:57.589 --> 00:10:02.663
And you get really creative you get really innovative, you have to have hard discussions with yourselves and with others.
00:10:02.663 --> 00:10:04.105
Here's what we're going to put down for now.
00:10:04.105 --> 00:10:20.124
Here's what we can't do, and it really is important to have clear vision in that, because if you know what you're aiming for and I have that in my Open Rivers mission statement I have that in kind, of what I want to deliver I'm helping people achieve their mission.
00:10:20.124 --> 00:10:22.807
Well then, let's get really precise on how we best allocate our resources to make that happen.
00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:25.974
Gosh, I love hearing you talk about these things.
00:10:25.974 --> 00:10:33.710
It's probably the first time here on the air that I'm like, ah, this guest should follow you 100%.
00:10:33.710 --> 00:10:48.496
Understand the way that my mind works, because even hearing you talk about in your line of work how you work with clients, I know that for me, and across all of my business portfolio, the one thing that I say these words to myself every Monday and typically every Sunday, when I look at the week ahead, is I say all right, let's take inventory.
00:10:48.496 --> 00:10:55.861
And for me, that inventory process is first figuring out okay, what are all the resources, what are all the things, what are all of my goals?
00:10:55.861 --> 00:11:00.923
Let's take inventory before we can start allocating our week, our resources, allocating all of those things.
00:11:00.923 --> 00:11:08.268
I'd love to hear your approach to this problem solving, because you're doing it for such a wide and interesting array of clients.
00:11:08.268 --> 00:11:09.932
What's that first step for you?
00:11:09.932 --> 00:11:11.202
Is it the taking inventory?
00:11:11.202 --> 00:11:13.428
Is it a set of questions that you ask your clients?
00:11:13.428 --> 00:11:15.581
I'd love to hear how you approach the problems.
00:11:16.705 --> 00:11:27.114
Absolutely, and I love that you do that, because that kind of pause and check in is actually it's a practice, it's a muscle that I think all of us are developing all the time.
00:11:27.114 --> 00:11:30.614
I love when organizations do it's actually we it's.
00:11:30.614 --> 00:11:39.355
I'm going to take a slight digression and answer your question, which is, I think, when we're just doing, doing, doing, which can be a very societal push to like you know, it's almost like widget production.
00:11:39.355 --> 00:11:57.006
We're told, from the time we're young, you're only as good as how much you're moving, as opposed to the value for the movement, and we've kind of like I think we have devalued and not maybe understood the value of the pause and step back, and so I love hearing that you're doing that on a consistent basis, because that's really powerful and it's something I just personally went through where I put my business.
00:11:57.006 --> 00:12:06.628
I just took my business to a massive reconfiguration, driven by a personal pause I did over the last two years that I realized was absolutely necessary.
00:12:06.628 --> 00:12:10.202
I looked at the last 20 years and said what do I want my next 20 years to be?
00:12:10.202 --> 00:12:18.986
I created that pause and and that really helped and that also got clearer in terms of you know, I applied the model that I would do with my clients to myself.
00:12:19.067 --> 00:12:19.869
So where do I start?
00:12:19.869 --> 00:12:22.763
With my clients and with others, I meet them absolutely like where are things?
00:12:22.763 --> 00:12:23.565
Just like listening.
00:12:23.565 --> 00:12:27.221
It's listening is so incredibly important.
00:12:27.221 --> 00:12:29.206
I teach that in all my courses.
00:12:29.206 --> 00:12:32.136
It doesn't matter what you take with me, you're gonna learn about active listening.
00:12:32.177 --> 00:12:33.239
I talk about my clients.
00:12:33.239 --> 00:12:37.044
It's something again that I'm I'm constantly learning and getting better at.
00:12:37.044 --> 00:12:40.716
But listening, taking inventories, checking in, where are we?
00:12:40.716 --> 00:12:41.477
What's going on?
00:12:41.477 --> 00:12:49.486
And then I do have questions that I have around, my own kind of formula that I use and it's it's kind of a fluid formula, but it really starts around.
00:12:49.486 --> 00:12:50.859
Let's understand what you're going for.
00:12:50.859 --> 00:13:02.681
What's coming up, getting a layer from different people bringing in lots of different information and different.
00:13:02.701 --> 00:13:04.447
So I love to start with, I say, diagnostic, but it's just really open to what's coming in.
00:13:04.447 --> 00:13:04.708
Where are we?
00:13:04.708 --> 00:13:06.596
With no judgment or assumptions, just very like curious and like where are we?
00:13:06.596 --> 00:13:07.818
And then it's amazing.
00:13:07.818 --> 00:13:10.606
It's been like I said, I've done this for 20 years.
00:13:10.606 --> 00:13:11.857
I'm getting better and better and better.
00:13:11.857 --> 00:13:22.197
I feel like every time I do it, it just it comes, it just arises.
00:13:22.197 --> 00:13:23.803
I just finished a client who helps women right after they come out of prison.
00:13:23.803 --> 00:13:26.414
It's an incredible nonprofit here in Virginia and they've been around 50 years and it didn't take long before.
00:13:26.414 --> 00:13:30.556
I kind of heard these things from the board, the executive director, and I said, wait, is this your problem?
00:13:30.556 --> 00:13:43.784
Because I keep hearing this and they're like, yeah, it is, and so that's really the first step is just being present and listening and like really holding folks with like compassion for what they're going through and it like without, without a, it hasn't failed.
00:13:43.865 --> 00:13:56.743
It always emerges like the clear path that everyone is like seeing and rallying around to your credit, though, shefali, when I hear you talk about that, where my head goes, just having looked at the body of your work and the business that you have.
00:13:56.743 --> 00:14:04.524
What I really appreciate about your business and your work and your approach most importantly, is the fact that it is multidisciplinary.
00:14:04.524 --> 00:14:19.426
It's not that one thing, and I've always loved that quote of when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, because, as someone, I've been in business since I was 19 years old, and so entrepreneurship is really all I know, and and I found throughout that journey that if you ask a web designer, you know my business isn't growing.
00:14:19.426 --> 00:14:19.886
What should I do?
00:14:19.886 --> 00:14:21.520
They're going to tell you you need a new website.
00:14:21.520 --> 00:14:25.245
If you ask a social media agency what you should do, they're going to say, well, you need social media.
00:14:31.446 --> 00:14:56.965
It seems to me, shefali, that when you come to talk about that because I feel like it's a buzzword that we throw around too frequently without defining and without actually practicing it seems to me like you truly do have that holistic approach where you say, hey, I have this understanding of the way that I think, thanks to economics, thanks to statistics, I have this understanding of all these different case studies that I've seen and been a part of in all the clients I've worked with, that you're coming truly from scratch, which I think there's a lot of power to that.
00:14:56.965 --> 00:15:07.844
Instead of saying, no, our solution here is going to be having a podcast or building a new website or whatever it is that we all do in the marketplace, talk to me about that holistic approach and what it means to you and how you actually practice it.
00:15:08.886 --> 00:15:09.408
Absolutely.
00:15:09.408 --> 00:15:16.668
So I'm going to highlight kind of three areas around that, just based on what we're talking about, that I think are really important from an entrepreneurial perspective.
00:15:16.668 --> 00:15:20.625
So one is kind of going back to the we need to do.
00:15:20.625 --> 00:15:21.615
So.
00:15:21.615 --> 00:15:32.698
The reason I start there and not all my clients and everybody wants to, they wanna go right, they're like you're here, let's get going is it's really important to pause and make sure you're putting the cart behind the horse.
00:15:32.698 --> 00:15:40.278
What I've seen with so many organizations around the world is they're just running, like you said, you talk to this person this is the answer, this is a solution.
00:15:40.278 --> 00:15:45.600
And so often they're running after something and you realize that actually wasn't the solution or that wasn't all of it.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:52.659
And that's where that pause and looking at the entirety of the picture and going, well, what is actually happening here, what are the questions or what do I need to do?
00:15:52.659 --> 00:16:04.821
So that's one major piece I've seen again and again is so many organizations expend resources on on just because they're just on like path dependent, like this is what we heard or we're just we're just doing.
00:16:04.821 --> 00:16:06.586
Pausing is really tough for folks.
00:16:06.586 --> 00:16:20.240
I have had clients like who like just really get uncomfortable, like why are you making us pause when we want to run, and I'm a huge fan of the slow down to run fast and everything in my life and so massively important.
00:16:20.260 --> 00:16:24.479
The second piece around, kind of that holistic piece, is what you talked about multidisciplinary.
00:16:24.479 --> 00:16:37.605
So recently I just wrote my first academic article in like over 17 years because I left academia for a while and I got a chance to write this article about transdisciplinarity and environmental economics and it's funny, I didn't know what that word meant.
00:16:37.605 --> 00:16:38.847
I was like what's transdisciplinary?
00:16:38.847 --> 00:16:40.578
And it's the idea.
00:16:40.578 --> 00:16:41.986
It's actually beyond multidisciplinary.
00:16:41.986 --> 00:16:47.792
So it's you have so many disciplines you actually can't, you don't even recognize where the lines are.
00:16:47.792 --> 00:16:49.496
You're really like pulling from everything.
00:16:49.496 --> 00:16:58.432
And I realized that that's actually how I've lived and that's allowed that holistic, this holistic perspective and this holistic method to really take hold.
00:16:58.432 --> 00:17:04.346
Because when you're not really wedded to any one way of thinking, it really opens up the field.
00:17:04.506 --> 00:17:12.796
And an example is I often will have discussions with, I'm constantly meeting new people everywhere I go and I'll chat with people.
00:17:12.796 --> 00:17:18.441
Maybe I've been referred and I have often said I'm not the right person for you, but I will help you find that person.
00:17:18.441 --> 00:17:27.195
So it's something that again, I run this business, the way that I hold my own values and how I run myself is I come in, I listen and go well, what's the right fit?
00:17:27.195 --> 00:17:34.344
And maybe the right fit isn't open rivers at all, and so I've actually turned away a lot of folks, and I will actually not just turn them away.
00:17:34.344 --> 00:17:40.030
I'm very lucky I have an immense community of phenomenal entrepreneurs and that's growing all the time.
00:17:40.030 --> 00:17:46.459
So I might be refer them to coaches, I know, refer them to other consultants, refer them to researchers, but for me, the biggest piece is I want.
00:17:46.940 --> 00:17:53.443
I want to make sure that your goal and what you need has the right fit and that's also part of that holistic mindset of like meeting it.
00:17:53.443 --> 00:18:04.279
So, even like right now, I reduced all my paid clients last year and I kind of went, turned my whole business model around, went very heavy on the pro bono, nonprofit side.
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:12.788
While I'm rebuilding, I have three part time folks who just came on last week amazing young people, but they're they're young people who are just phenomenal.
00:18:12.788 --> 00:18:18.867
And, yes, a part of me is like yes, I want to go out, I need to get my revenue stream going, I need the cash flow.
00:18:18.867 --> 00:18:47.807
But I'm making sure that I adhere to these principles and I've already had some discussions with folks I've said look, I know I can help you find the person you need, but here's why I don't think that's the right fit with me, but I'll work with you to get that and and then the third element of the holistic piece that's really important is and this it's tough because this is I use a lot of neuroscience and neurology when I do in consulting and my coaching work, just in my own research is that whole hammer nail thing is is understandable.
00:18:47.807 --> 00:18:57.996
Whatever we're trained in, we are going to bring that forward because that's how our brain has worked and this is where it matters to have others, and I think as a solo entrepreneur, this can get really tricky.
00:18:58.356 --> 00:18:59.479
So I have a group of like.
00:18:59.479 --> 00:19:02.625
I call them like my personal advisors or people who are like thought partners.
00:19:02.625 --> 00:19:12.357
I'll just pick up the phone and say, hey, can I just like bounce some ideas off of you across different fields, like my entomology professor from like back at University of Minnesota.
00:19:12.357 --> 00:19:13.560
We're still in touch.
00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:20.442
I actually ended up being an advisor for him, like we have, and it's been wonderful, because sometimes I'll be like this is something that needs like a totally different perspective.
00:19:20.442 --> 00:19:22.230
He's a wonderful forest service.
00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:25.586
He's served the forest service for like over it's like 30, 40 years.
00:19:25.586 --> 00:19:27.595
He's been the US government and just wonderful.
00:19:27.595 --> 00:19:29.898
But it's an example of just the range of folks.
00:19:29.898 --> 00:19:31.862
I have folks ex-McKinsey colleagues.
00:19:31.862 --> 00:19:33.464
I have ex-Singenta colleagues.
00:19:33.464 --> 00:19:34.326
I have ex-syngenta colleagues.
00:19:34.326 --> 00:19:36.109
I have folks who are in Australia and India.
00:19:36.109 --> 00:19:49.319
They offer that piece so that if ever you end up finding that you're overusing your hammer which is absolutely normal again, because that's what we're trained having those checks are incredibly important.
00:19:49.981 --> 00:19:57.398
Yeah, shefali, I feel like you just exposed one of your superpowers right there and I want to resurface it because it's such an easy thing to look over.
00:19:57.398 --> 00:20:01.336
And you said that part of the holistic approach is pulling from everywhere.
00:20:01.336 --> 00:20:10.152
It's obviously something that you and I talked off air about, but I would argue that so much of society forces us into boxes, and so I remember my uncle.
00:20:10.152 --> 00:20:18.372
I come from an immigrant family and my uncle, in his first book he wrote about, the very first chapter was called unsortable and he talked about when my family moved to the United States.
00:20:18.372 --> 00:20:23.104
He felt like he didn't fit into a box because he was only nine when my mom's family moved to the U?
00:20:23.104 --> 00:20:30.376
S and so he said well, I'm not really Albanian, like I don't remember growing up in Albania, but people here don't treat me like I'm American.
00:20:30.376 --> 00:20:33.983
He's because I am foreign and I have an accent and I wasn't fluent in English.
00:20:33.983 --> 00:20:37.892
And so he talks about that very notion of everyone wants to put us into a box.
00:20:38.172 --> 00:20:42.723
I think about it when we choose our major in college oh, you're in the business school, I'm in the art school.
00:20:42.983 --> 00:20:46.487
Like we all are so clear about those boxes, even with regards to content.
00:20:46.487 --> 00:21:03.906
I think part of the reason why you and I probably appreciate podcasting so much is we can have these long form conversations where, if you're making tick-tock videos, gosh, you only get to talk about one thing for the for 30 seconds and it's got to be very to the point, whereas so much of life is pulling from everywhere and exploring all these different ways.
00:21:03.906 --> 00:21:12.438
I would argue that that going outside of those boxes that most people exist in that gives you such a different perspective in solving problems.
00:21:12.438 --> 00:21:23.080
Whereas I see lawyers think that if they want to get ideas for their website, they have to look at other legal websites, whereas I tell them go, look at what completely unrelated industries are doing and steal it.
00:21:23.080 --> 00:21:25.406
You'll be very innovative in your own industry.
00:21:25.406 --> 00:21:31.380
Shefali, talk to us about those links Because I would argue and I'm sure you've seen this most people don't see those links.
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:36.736
They're not willing to go outside those boxes those links.
00:21:36.756 --> 00:21:37.718
They're not willing to go outside those boxes.
00:21:37.718 --> 00:21:38.019
Absolutely.
00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:39.182
And I love, absolutely love that you're.
00:21:39.182 --> 00:21:42.878
You can see that in your ancestry and I think it's so important of like how it is.
00:21:42.878 --> 00:21:52.756
I would say that's how narratives are placed on us and I think, and you're absolutely right we have a society that's perpetually trying to tell us our own story, and so there's almost this act of.
00:21:52.756 --> 00:21:59.009
I would say that I spent my life kind of marching to the beat of my own drummer and my father, he said he's like, you were like that from the time you came out.
00:21:59.009 --> 00:22:07.153
And I'm like, but you know, my parents really helped to drive that, whether they accept that or not, because they were marching to the beat of their own drummer.
00:22:07.153 --> 00:22:08.116
Is that what we're really doing?
00:22:08.116 --> 00:22:17.098
When we do that is, we're saying this is what I, this is who I am, this, this is who I am, this is what I believe in.
00:22:17.098 --> 00:22:18.846
We establish our own narrative and it's incredibly important for a host of reasons.
00:22:18.846 --> 00:22:22.701
So you read out at the beginning you shared the five principles I use for founding Open Rivers.
00:22:22.701 --> 00:22:26.714
The reason I say diversity of perspectives is exactly what you hit on.
00:22:27.497 --> 00:22:30.382
It's really easy to be pigeonholed and narrow.
00:22:30.382 --> 00:22:41.884
You say I work in, I'm a law firm, or I work in conservation, you only look at others doing that and it's really limiting because that's not going to be the end, all be all.
00:22:41.884 --> 00:22:51.131
There's a massive world that's out there and when we go and connect with others we bring in fresh ideas and it's something that I've valued and done and folks have you know they're.
00:22:51.131 --> 00:22:52.174
It's not always comfortable.
00:22:52.174 --> 00:22:57.806
I definitely run into a lot of people like, well, give me the 90 second elevator speech and I would try.
00:22:57.806 --> 00:23:00.455
I tried for years and what I realized then is you know what?
00:23:00.455 --> 00:23:01.859
Maybe I'm not going to try anymore.
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:15.746
What I'm instead going to do is be myself and focus and I'm going to attract the people who value that and say maybe it's not a 90 second tidbit or a 30 second tidbit, but I see the entirety of what you do and the entirety of that is exactly going out.
00:23:15.746 --> 00:23:18.450
Having those checks, the innovations.
00:23:18.549 --> 00:23:23.192
I do a ton of work on research and innovation, both with clients, with myself, with my own.
00:23:23.192 --> 00:23:29.077
Even Open Rivers was meant to be like an experimental lab, essentially, when I founded it, where we could just try out anything.
00:23:29.077 --> 00:23:37.016
Anyone who's worked with me, any of my employees, they know there's a lot of freedom to try things and to do that you have to be pretty open to what else is happening.
00:23:37.016 --> 00:23:38.601
And actually I have a funny story.
00:23:38.601 --> 00:23:40.432
I just I'm updating my website.
