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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and we are all in for a real treat here today, in today's episode, because not only do we have an incredible guest and an incredible fellow entrepreneur, but this is someone who is really enlightening and educating the world on so many new financial opportunities and the way that the markets work, and so much goodness that you don't want to miss out on all of these things, because the future is here, I feel like.
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So frequently we talk about how AI is shaping the world, but we also talk about how decentralization is reshaping the financial markets and reshaping investment opportunities.
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So let me introduce you to today's guest.
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His name is Vadim Voss.
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Vadim is the founder of Next Level DeFi, where he's helping everyday people achieve financial freedom using decentralized finance strategies that don't require staring at charts, taking on high risks or being a math genius.
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Vadim has a degree in finance and information systems from NYU's Stern School of Business and over 20 years of entrepreneurial experience.
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That's why I said he's one of us.
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He's built a proven system that allows people, regardless of their background, to create passive income streams through DeFi and yield farming.
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If you have no idea what those things mean.
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Vadim's going to demystify a lot of that here today.
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Today, he's going to break all this down for us, including a little known strategy that most people aren't even talking about yet but could be an absolute game changer.
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So I'm personally very excited about this one.
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I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Vadim Boss.
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Thanks for the intro, brian.
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Happy to be here.
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Yes, vadim, so glad to have you here.
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I'm very excited to hear your personal story firsthand.
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So take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Vadim?
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Well, I mean I started off in the IT world.
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I mean I started in finance first, but then kind of 9-11 rolled around and my finance job offers fell through.
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They pulled them, you know, like most people, and then I had to scramble, got into IT, worked there for a couple of years, realized it wasn't for me I'm an entrepreneur.
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So I went overseas to Russia, ukraine, lithuania, everywhere and I just did a bunch of different businesses, but then I had problems with banking over there and basically I was like man, these people are just straight up stealing my money.
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You know, like there's got to be a better way, and Bitcoin was that better way.
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And then so I was trading Bitcoin for a bit, because that's all there was in the beginning.
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Then Ethereum rolled in the scene.
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I was like smart contracts, automation, decentralization, and that's when DeFi, decentralized finance entered the scene and I kind of started doing that and I found that it was much less stress, way more passive income and when we're guaranteed profits, and I kind of switched all my capital that I made, you know, running all these businesses into that.
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And then, you know, when I started doing that, it was working great.
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I'm like man, more people need to learn about this stuff, you know.
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And then I started looking around for educational opportunities.
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Nobody was doing it, like you know, for complete beginners, and I was like man, I guess I'm going to have to do it, you know.
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So that's how I got into it.
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That's how Next Level DeFi Academy was born.
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Yeah, I love that overview, Vadim, especially because you obviously were super early to the game.
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You obviously have had a long love of finance and I would imagine that to you it's all a no brainer.
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I hear from people in your situation who were really early on into the world of crypto and all things decentralized finance.
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You guys think what are the rest of you waiting for?
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But I'm sure that you also appreciate that it's confusing for most people.
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We hear terms like DeFi.
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A lot of people don't know what that means.
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Help us with understanding the landscape and the different terms that we might hear.
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Yeah, that's the bias of people who've been here, you know, in the game for a long time.
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It's very easy to them.
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But somebody who's just a regular person, who doesn't even know what Bitcoin is, who doesn't know anything at all, you know, but they still want to make money, you know, in that space.
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You know.
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That's kind of my mission to educate people like that and just show them how to drive the car, so to speak.
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You know, you don't need to be a mechanic to drive the car Like that's my favorite metaphor, right you don't need to know how the radiator works, because I'm terrible at cars myself, a little secret, so I'm a driver.
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So I kind of applied this thinking to decentralized finance, which is basically just a bunch of automated protocols running on a bunch of computers at the same time on the internet.
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If you want to really dumb it down and make it super simple, that's all it is.
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There's no need to get confused, right?
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And the beautiful thing about it is decentralized.
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So there's no middleman, you don't need permission, you don't need to go to the bank and get a little note from the teller, nine to five, monday through Friday.
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No, it runs 24, seven, 365 on decentralized servers, all the time and you control the keys and your funds yourself directly.
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That's the biggest kind of bonus of decentralized finance.
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Not me, not the exchanges, you, which is no other place has that.
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Yeah, vadim, it's funny that you use the car example, the example that I always think about when it comes to crypto.
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I always think about early 2000s.
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I was a teenager, I was in high school and I was old enough to open a bank account for the first time.
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And I opened an ING direct account, which, way back in the day, they didn't have any US locations, it was purely an online bank.
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I think it was one of the earliest ones and I remember my dad was thinking what are you going to do when you need a teller?
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What are you going to do when you need to deposit cash?
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And, of course, there are very easy solutions for all of those.
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Talk to us about where are we?
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Because now internet banks are the norm and everyone's used to it.
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How far along are we in this world of decentralized finance?
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Because it's still a little bit and people are a little shocked.
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But are we getting closer to it being a normal, everyday thing?
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Yeah, we're definitely getting closer, especially now that Donald Trump is bringing regulation into the space and more positive, pro-crypto kind of policy from the lawmakers which was the problem with the Paris administration.
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They were trying to kind of stunt the growth.
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But now that that's coming in, there's going to be clarity, there's going to be a lot more decentralized finance solutions coming to the space and when there's more regulation, bigger players enter and then the interface gets easier.
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That's the biggest thing eventually.
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Uh, you probably what do you need?
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You know people like me to teach others, because it's going to be just so easy.
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It'll be just like an app on your phone and it's going to be all kind of, you know, automated away in the background.
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You know, with big blocky buttons that you just press like a one button deposit, one button withdraw and that's it.
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We're not quite there yet, I mean.
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So you know I'm not out of a job yet.
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I think it's another five to 10 years, so I'm not worried about that at all.
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But yeah, the abstraction is coming, the ease of use is coming and you know the big players are getting in.
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I mean now, you see, like big banks, like bank of america, getting into the game, you know, uh like, even canada is getting in the game.
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Some of those banks, they're.
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They're you know, now that they see that the regulators not come down hard on them, they're actually willing to handle crypto assets.
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A big shift from just five years ago, when they were closing my bank accounts just for me doing bitcoin transactions.
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And literally that happened to me, my friends, I didn't do anything illegal, I was just buying and selling and selling Bitcoin from my bank account and they just shut it down.
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No explanation.
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Sorry, don't need your service anymore.
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Don't need your patronage anymore.
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Vadim, it's interesting to hear you say that.
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I'm so appreciative because I know how valuable and how important your voice is in your space, and a lot of people might be thinking wait, vadim sounds like he likes more regulation, whereas a lot of people might be thinking wait, vadim sounds like he likes more regulation, whereas a lot of people view this world as the wild wild west, completely unregulated, anything goes.
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Vadim, go there with us, because I think that that's not a popular opinion, but I think it is one that's important for it to become more mainstream.
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No, I think good constructive regulation is good for the space.
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It's not bad, right.
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If the regulator is working hand in hand with DeFi providers, then that works.
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And once, because you do need to interact with the traditional banking system.
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I'm not telling anybody to just dump your bank accounts, dump your 401ks, no, no, no, that is not what I'm saying at all.
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You should have all of those things, you should have 401ks, you should have bank accounts, but you should have decentralized alternatives to those things as well.
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In case something happens, in case you know like your bank account decides to just close down your account, right?
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Or decides to freeze your account, like what happened in Canada with the truck protest, you know they just froze their bank accounts and people couldn't pay their rent, couldn't buy food, couldn't provide for their families.
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If they ever had a decentralized finance wallet account with some USDC in there or some Bitcoin in there, that would not be a problem.
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Yeah, good luck shutting that down, not going to happen.
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So there's good regulation and there's bad regulation, but we need more of the good one and hopefully none of the bad one, right?
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And then there's also still, you know the non-regulated space that's available for those that don't want to.
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You know, deal with regulation.
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Don't want any bank's account.
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You know Because, like right now, for example, I just got my Coinbase debit card, which charges directly from my Bitcoin balance on Coinbase.
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So technically I don't even need a bank account anymore.
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I'm totally debanked.
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I can just use this card to purchase anywhere and it charges straight to my bitcoin, or I can take out cash and then the atm, you know, also straight my bitcoin balance.
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See, so I'm not dependent on any one bank for my banking needs yeah, it's very cool to hear.
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Especially anyone who sees the news cycle can understand the importance of this type of stuff and and you talking about having a debit card that you can walk up to an ATM I think about it's actually a word that you've already introduced to our conversation, jay the interface.
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Vadim, I remember many years ago, the first time that I even heard about people talking about Bitcoin.
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You had to use all these different providers and portals and wallets and you had to make things connect with each other.
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What do you mean when you talk about the interface?
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What does the entire ecosystem look like?
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oh, right now the ecosystem is really built out.
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You know it's been, you know, over 10 years.
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So now we have debit cards, um, you can buy bitcoin, like through a coinbase app on your phone or there's a zillion other apps.
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Back in the days when I had to buy bitcoin, I would have to wire the money to, you know, to like mount gox, right.
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Then I had to like buy it and then withdraw it to like a paper wallet.
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You know there was no Trezors, no hardware wallets.
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Nowadays it is so easy.
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You could just do it all on your phone, on your smartphone, without anything else, and you could do it, like, you know, just your thumb, like within 20 seconds, man, like yeah, it's really come a long way.
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And that's just Bitcoin, I mean like Ethereum, usdc, all this, multiple networks, polkadot is moving really fast.
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Now Polkadot came out with their own app where you can literally buy DOT with your debit card, credit card, straight from the app one big red button or green button.
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I would say, yeah, they made it so much easier and it's only going to get easier in the next 10 years.
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I think the next 10 years is going to be even easier than like normal bank interfaces on your online bank.
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That's where it's all going.
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Yeah, I love that view of the future, vadim.
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It is very much needed in what has been historically a very complicated industry to understand.
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With that said, one thing that I really like about the way that you talk about it is, of course, the real world implications, and a lot of people look at Bitcoin, and especially as the value has soared.
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You know, if I owe you 20 bucks, that's going to be point zero, zero something.
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You know it's long decimal places.
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Talk to us about the real world implications, because I don't think enough people see that just yet.
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Well, the real implication is that you can't print more Bitcoin and no government controls Bitcoin.
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That's its biggest value and it's also divisible into 100 million pieces.
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You can send it pretty much instantly to anybody across the world, 24-7, 365, and they'll get it.
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You're not at the mercy of the government printers.
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You're not at the mercy of the banks and their policies.
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It's the hottest money in existence, right?
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But I mean, and it's also a great way to store money and combat inflation, because you know inflation they say it's 2-3%.
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It's really close to 15%.
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Come on, if you include the utilities, food and that's the little games they play.
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They just exclude all the real important metrics and like, oh no, inflation is not that bad.
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The real important metrics, and like, oh no, inflation, it's not that bad.
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Like you don't need to eat, you don't need to drive, you don't need to live.
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That's okay.
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Yeah, but you know, let's not talk about that, um, yeah, so I mean, it's now.
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It's the hottest money, it's available to everybody and it's the most democratic form of money, and I think eventually, governments will have to kind of use it as their reserve worldwide.
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That's that's what what Michael Saylor is betting on with his huge Bitcoin purchases.
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Because you know, once one country starts buying a Bitcoin with their fiat and printing that fiat to buy Bitcoin, guess what the other countries are going to do?
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It's going to be like an arms race, you know.
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Oh, I bought a billion Bitcoin.
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I'm going to buy 10 billion Bitcoin.
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You know, because it's better than gold.
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It's tough to operate with gold.
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Gold is heavy.
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You can't really like sell off a third of the bar to pay for my vehicle, right?
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You can't really send me the bar by mail.
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That's kind of difficult.
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It doesn't have any of those properties of like Bitcoin that Bitcoin has in abundance, and it's backed by energy.
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Bitcoin is basically like stored energy in electronic format on the most hack-proof network in existence.
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I mean, what is it?
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13 years, $1.8 trillion honeypot.
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Nobody was able to hack it.
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I mean, if that doesn't say security, I don't know what the hell it does.
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Yeah, and I'll add on to that, vadim.
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We don't talk about politics here on the show, but I think that I mean it's real life, it's mainstream that everybody knows that all of our information has been leaked by the government multiple times over and I don't think we talk about it enough.
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And, as business owners, there's so many real world implications and complications with the fact that our data is controlled in all of these places.
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The government has every single thing about us.
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You're talking about truly decentralized.
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I think that it's a really cool world.
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When you say it's the hottest currency and the hottest money in the world, I think about probably one of the biggest limiting factors that you hear about is people say well, I'm late to the party.
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I already missed out.
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Bitcoin already costs $100,000 per coin.
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I'm too late.
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What's your response to that?
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Because obviously you deal with that every day.
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I mean that was around when Bitcoin cost like $200.
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Then that was around when it was $3,000.
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And people were saying the exact same thing at $100,000, $3,000, $10,000, $50,000, and now at $100,000.
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I mean, I agree with Michael Saylor.
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I think it will go probably to a million dollars at some point not in the next year, obviously, although I could be wrong.
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Who can predict what Bitcoin does?
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Bitcoin does what Bitcoin does.
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But they don't understand that you don't have to buy a whole Bitcoin.
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It's divisible into 100 million pieces, so you can just buy 100 bucks of Bitcoin 200 bucks and it will maintain the value of that $100, $200.
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, that's what this tool is for to maintain, to conserve value, like gold.
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People just want to get the 10x, 20x, 40x, but think about preserving the value of your money, because that money is depreciating in your bank account as we speak.
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I mean there's multiple ways.
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There's Bitcoin, preserving value, and there is also like generating higher return on your money, which is what I teach.
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You know, because, like there's plenty of other people that teach trading and Bitcoin and all of that and I teach how to actually put your money to work and outpace the inflation and make more money on your money.
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That's in dollar terms, not in Bitcoin terms.
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All right, Vadim, listeners wouldn't be happy with me now if I didn't just follow.
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Use that as a natural segue, because that's what they're here for.
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Vadim, how the heck do you teach people how to do that?
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Well, I mean, when I got into decentralized finance, in the beginning there was only crypto lending.
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So let me start with saying everybody heard the term yield farming, right, where you're farming for yield, where you basically like, sow your seeds of your capital, then you water it with your skills and your knowledge and your experience and then you get like the farming yield, the money, the return, the dividends, right.
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So in the beginning there was only crypto lending.
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That's where you basically somebody who doesn't want to sell their Bitcoin, they want to borrow against that Bitcoin from you and they're willing to pay you a good interest.
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You know 15, 20% a year and obviously their Bitcoin is the collateral for that loan you give them.
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Right, that's like the simplest form.
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So that's one part and I've done some of that.
00:16:11.629 --> 00:16:25.956
But then eventually, like I mentioned previously, I was doing a bunch of trading and you know, in centralized exchanges there's something called market makers, where they provide liquidity, so you can trade between, let's say, stocks like NVIDIA and IBM, right, so that's a centralized companies.
00:16:25.956 --> 00:16:34.181
So on decentralized exchanges, they actually outsource that function, they crowdsource it to everyday people like you and me.
00:16:34.181 --> 00:16:46.355
So we are decentralized market makers, so we can provide our funds to decentralized exchange in a fully automated, secure, control your keys DeFi style type of way, right, you never give up.
00:16:46.355 --> 00:16:49.265
Control your funds and then basically, dex.
00:16:49.265 --> 00:17:05.813
Decentralized exchange provides it to the traders and they trade and they pay fees to the exchange and the exchange shares the fees with us and that's how you make you know anywhere from 20% to even 300% a year on your funds, while holding the tokens that you actually want to hold long term.
00:17:06.213 --> 00:17:17.359
You know, like the pairs of tokens between which they trade, and that's called liquidity mining and that's actually what I teach you know regular people who have no clue what crypto is, no clue what Bitcoin is, and they don't need to.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:23.476
I always tell them you don't need any theory, you don't need to know any of that.
00:17:23.476 --> 00:17:24.619
That's all available for free on YouTube.
00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:28.714
What I will teach you is the hands-on skills how to make money in DeFi, which is what they really want.
00:17:28.714 --> 00:17:30.098
They don't want to know anything else.
00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:31.892
Yeah, vadim, I'll tell you this.
00:17:31.892 --> 00:17:45.698
Obviously, we're on the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast, so you and I both know that a lot of people listening are business owners, and I will put myself on the spot here that we obviously have operational cash reserves, that I always have cash on hand to pay our staff and ensure our long term sustainability.
00:17:45.698 --> 00:17:55.737
Part of me is thinking why am I not investing part of those cash reserves into something that also makes me money as an additional way for our cash to grow itself?
00:17:55.737 --> 00:17:58.000
Is that part of the strategy?
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.994
Like, I would love for you to speak directly to our audience of entrepreneurs.
00:18:00.994 --> 00:18:02.218
What is that strategy?
00:18:02.218 --> 00:18:05.575
How should we be viewing our reserves and our longer term growth?
00:18:06.376 --> 00:18:11.096
Yeah, I mean, that's actually exactly what I do, like I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a business owner.
00:18:11.096 --> 00:18:26.680
My business is Next Little Diffy Academy, where I you know, I have provide like a course to the people, a step-by-step, with all the screen caps, always evergreen, and then I do VIP support on top that walks them through it and they pay me for that.
00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:27.624
But then that's my active stream of income.
00:18:27.624 --> 00:18:31.255
But then I take that stream of income and I invest it into the passive side of things.
00:18:31.255 --> 00:18:36.515
So basically I use stable coin farms instead of my bank account to hold my cash.
00:18:36.515 --> 00:18:41.270
I can get 15 to 20% per year on my cash holding that.
00:18:41.692 --> 00:18:54.271
And then, if you actually want to hold your funds in a pair of, let's say, bitcoin, ethereum, which I know over long-term are both going to rise, so I don't really care if they fluctuate up and down, it's just impermanent loss.
00:18:54.271 --> 00:18:57.794
It's like Bitcoin's at 90, now it's at 80, and now it's back to 90.
00:18:57.794 --> 00:18:58.834
Did you really lose anything?
00:18:58.834 --> 00:19:01.895
No, you didn't, right, unless you sold, which I don't recommend.
00:19:01.895 --> 00:19:08.140
Yeah, but yeah, there you can get anywhere from 60 to 70% per year on your cash actually.
00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:11.241
So I mean, I just don't see why you wouldn't do that.
00:19:11.241 --> 00:19:12.923
That's like leaving free money on the table.
00:19:12.923 --> 00:19:16.045
It's like, gee, no, I don't want to get 20% return on my funds.
